Originally posted by josephwWhy? You asked why he had chosen to leave. Why "should [we] all leave" if we don't share his reasons and personal motivation to leave? His decision to leave is his own. It doesn't create anything that "should" be done by anyone else.
Then perhaps we should all leave?
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Originally posted by robbie carrobie
But he only understand this from the standpoint of an OUTWARD God,
that statement simply is not true and i do not know what has provided the basis for
your evaluation. I am a spiritual person, since coming to an accurate knowledge of
'the truth', I have attempted, according to the sacred text, to strip off the
old personality, in fact, let ...[text shortened]... s not finished with any of us yet and I would be pleased if you would remember
that Jaywill.
what is this force which actuates our minds? Initially i thought it was the Holy spirit, but upon further inspection, its not, its our dominant mental attitudes, our inclinations. I do not deny that the Holy spirit is a helper, but clearly the Bible itself demonstrates the importance of taking in accurate knowledge and using that knowledge to mould and completely transform the inner personality,
There is the possibility that the change you are talking about is merely a kind of self refinement. Any religion could induce some self refinement through behavior modification to a degree.
AA, Overeaters Anoymous, and many psycholigical support groups help people to learn more, encrease some knowledge about something, and refine their own behavior to a degree.
Transformation in the New Testament is by the Holy Spirit. There is no ifs, ands, and buts about the Holy Spirit being the Divine Agent of transformation.
"But we all with unveiled face, beholding and reflecting like a mirror the glory of the Lord are being TRANSFORMED into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord Spirit." (2 Cor. 3:18)
I draw your attention to the specific words - " ... even as from the Lord Spirit".
There is no mistaking the matter. The proper metabolic transformation of the personality is "from the Lord Spirit". How can you say "initially I thought it was the Holy spirit" ?
There is no reason to drop the clear teaching of the New Testament that the transformation takes place "even as from the Lord Spirit".
Now Who is this Lord Spirit ? We are told in the previous verse that the Lord is the Spirit -
"And the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom. But we all with unveiled face ... are being transformed ... even as from the Lord Spirit."
The Holy Spirit is the Lord Himself. The Holy Spirit who does the transforming work on the Christian is the Lord Himself in His form as the Spirit - the Holy Spirit.
Who is "the Lord" of verse 17 ? We are told in the next chapter, verse 4 that Christ Jesus is the Lord -
"For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord ..." ( 2 Cor. 4:5a)
The Lord then is Christ Jesus. The Lord Spirit who transforms is the Lord Spirit Who is Christ Jesus. - "Now the Lord is the Spirit".
His act of transforming is also His act of GIVING Divine Life - "the Last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
Since Christ is the "last Adam" this verse says that Christ became a "life giving Spirit". The more we allow Him to GIVE Himself to us as divine life the more we are transformed. And it is the Spirit that gives life in Second Corinthians -
" ... for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" (2 Cor. 3:6)
Jesus Christ = the Spirit that gives life.
Christ Jesus = The Lord.
The Lord = the Spirit.
And the last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit.
You should be able to see now, that in the New Testament, transformation is absolutely not merely by learning more and more information. It is not the encrease of knowledge for self refinement. It is the operation of the life giving Holy Spirit dispensing Himself as life into the man, transforming him into the same image.
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Originally posted by JS357
Yes, you are not acting like I would expect a member of an elite with a hidden agenda, to act.
I am frequently reminded of Victor Frankl's book titled "Man's Search For Meaning." Your post makes me think he is referring to man's search for significance, or importance, or worth. You seem to have found yours.
Yes, you are not acting like I would expect a member of an elite with a hidden agenda, to act.
I am frequently reminded of Victor Frankl's book titled "Man's Search For Meaning." Your post makes me think he is referring to man's search for significance, or importance, or worth. You seem to have found yours.
I think we usually think of the meaning of man's life to be very philosophically deep. And I agree that it can be a profound matter.
But there is a MEANING to life which everyone who comes to Jesus can grasp. His great love for the sinner in redeeming him, in forgiving him of all his sins, give tremendous meaning.
This can be instantly grasped by anyone including the little child. We are all humbled that our lives had meaning to the encredible love of Jesus Christ. Had you no meaning, the Son of God would not have come to die for us.
So touching His love in that He is my Savior and Lord, immediately supplies one with a sense of the most profound meaning to his or her human existence.
The apostle John refered to himself as "the disciple whom Jesus loved" . I don't think this means to John that Jesus didn't love all the disciples. It mean that this is his only significant matter of real import - he was the disciple whom Jesus loved.
The love of Jesus furnishes the repentent sinner with tremendous meaning, tremendous sense of purpose - God's object of favor.
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Originally posted by FMFwhat previous one?- are you making things up just to get attention? typical goody-two-shoes???
When all is said done, I think he was a tragic figure.
Having said that, this 'retirement' might only be for attention seeking purposes, like the previous one. He may well be back to posting in "douche" mode again by next week.
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Originally posted by jaywillwhat is it Jaywill, you fail to understand about the terms, and i put it in bold,
[quote] what is this force which actuates our minds? Initially i thought it was the Holy spirit, but upon further inspection, its not, its our dominant mental attitudes, our inclinations. I do not deny that the Holy spirit is a helper, but clearly the Bible itself demonstrates the importance of taking in accurate knowledge and using that knowledge to moul ng Himself as life into the man, transforming him into the same image.
'an accurate knowledge',
(Colossians 3:9-10) . . .Strip off the old personality with its practices, and clothe
yourselves with the new [personality], which through accurate knowledge is
being made new according to the image of the One who created it,
and 'the force actuating our minds',
(Ephesians 4:22-24) . . .that you should put away the old personality which
conforms to your former course of conduct and which is being corrupted according
to his deceptive desires; but that you should be made new in the force actuating
your mind, and should put on the new personality . . .
which is not the Holy spirit, but our mental inclination. Two scriptural references
which demonstrate the importance of knowledge Jaywill. What I find among born
again and so called evangelical christians is just the opposite, a kind of
emotionalism, why? because they think that the Holy spirit is a panacea for all and
when you ask them to reason they are at an absolute loss because they have failed
to understand the importance of an accurate knowledge of Christ as emphasised by
Paul in the inspired word of God. We can go even further to demonstrate the
importance of knowledge as opposed to emotionalism,
(John 17:3) . . .This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you,
the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.
note everlasting life is not dependent upon any type of interpretation of Holy spirit
but in knowledge, accurate knowledge of God and Christ, through personal study of
Gods word. emotionalism has bred generations of Christians, ignorant of what it is
they profess, like boats blown hither and zither to every wind of teaching.
and you are wrong Jaywill, its not merely a process of self refinement, its a total and
complete metamorphosis, from caterpillar to butterfly, so that what was present
before is unrecognisable from that which is transformed through the application of
Biblical principles gleaned through study and deep meditation upon the example of
God and the Christ, not a mere emotionalism. How do we know?
(Romans 12:2) And quit being fashioned after this system of things, but be
transformed by making your mind over, that you may prove to yourselves the
good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
the term, 'be transformed', comes from the Greek, metamorphoo and indicates a
complete and total change, but you will note the mechanism, once again, 'by making
your mind over'. How does one make ones mind over? Through diligent study of
Gods word and deep meditation on the examples of God and Christ and the
principles found therin. Holy spirit is no substitute for personal effort.
Originally posted by RJHindsHa ha. The good/bad thing didn't work did it? Never will because it's not an accurate reflection of the greater universe, just a reflection of Hollywood
I am through casting pearls before swine, who don't appreciate my contribution to this forum.
P.S. You are not one of the swine, but a friend. God bless you!
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord!