Graven images, Worship, Commandments

I'm just back from Good Friday mass and there was one thing I quietly declined to do during the proceedings. Before the communion section of the mass, some men brought largish crucifixes to various parts of the church and its surrounds where the congregation was sitting under tent things, all able to see TV monitors showing the altar and choir etc., and everyone queued up to kiss the feet of Jesus. Surely this falls foul of one of the 10 commandments or something?

Originally posted by FMF
I'm just back from Good Friday mass and there was one thing I quietly declined to do during the proceedings. Before the communion section of the mass, some men brought largish crucifixes to various parts of the church and its surrounds where the congregation was sitting under tent things, all able to see TV monitors showing the altar and choir etc., and everyone ...[text shortened]... ss the feet of Jesus' feet. Surely this falls foul of one of the 10 commandments or something?

Its a tough one. The real questions are:
Were they worshiping the statue? I realize they appeared to, but were they?
Are statues in general banned, or only those that are worshiped, or only those that depict Jesus?
Is it all a matter of degree, or is there a definite line that must not be crossed?
I believe the Muslims are much more strict about depicting Mohammed. Are they on the right path?

Originally posted by FMF
I'm just back from Good Friday mass and there was one thing I quietly declined to do during the proceedings. Before the communion section of the mass, some men brought largish crucifixes to various parts of the church and its surrounds where the congregation was sitting under tent things, all able to see TV monitors showing the altar and choir etc., and everyone ...[text shortened]... p to kiss the feet of Jesus. Surely this falls foul of one of the 10 commandments or something?

Boom, tough actin' Tinactin! Never go to mass without it.

Originally posted by FMF
I'm just back from Good Friday mass and there was one thing I quietly declined to do during the proceedings. Before the communion section of the mass, some men brought largish crucifixes to various parts of the church and its surrounds where the congregation was sitting under tent things, all able to see TV monitors showing the altar and choir etc., and everyone ...[text shortened]... p to kiss the feet of Jesus. Surely this falls foul of one of the 10 commandments or something?

Yes.

Originally posted by FMF
I'm just back from Good Friday mass and there was one thing I quietly declined to do during the proceedings. Before the communion section of the mass, some men brought largish crucifixes to various parts of the church and its surrounds where the congregation was sitting under tent things, all able to see TV monitors showing the altar and choir etc., and everyone ...[text shortened]... p to kiss the feet of Jesus. Surely this falls foul of one of the 10 commandments or something?

Firstly, this is a technicality, but you did not actually attend a Mass. Good Friday is the one day in the Christian calendar when a Mass is not celebrated. Communion is consecrated the night before on the Good Thursday Vigil. The tabernacle is then emptied and Communion is reposed in a vault to be used the following day for commemoration of the Passion.

Secondly, as twitehead pointed out, the crucial qiestion is whether this can be called worship. The use of images in itself is not idolatrous (Christians happily have depictions of bible scenes in their bibles.) In a discussion with Galveston, I also pointed out many times in which God orders the construction of images to be used in the temple:

There was the brazen serpent (Numbers 21:9), not destroyed till Ezechias [worshiped them] (2 Kings 18:4), there were carved and moulded garlands of fruit and flowers and trees (Numbers 8:4; 1 Kings 6:18; 7:36); the king's throne rested on carved lions (1 Kings 10:19-20), Iions and bulls supported the basins in the temple (1 Kings 7:25, 29). Especially there are the cherubim, great carved figures of beasts (Ezekiel 1:5; 10:20, where they are called beasts), that stood over the ark of the covenant (Exodus 25:18-22; 1 Kings 6:23-8; 8:6-7, etc.)

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07664a.htm

Thirdly, it is important to remember that the cross is the supreme symbol of Jesus Christ. Details about Jesus' physical appearance are simply unknowable and mayve even irrelevant. The cross, however, which represents his redemptive mission in the world and the love of God who sent His only son is of much greater value. So the veneration of the cross really should not be considered idolatrous. Whatever gestures people make to the cross are ultimately intended for Jesus Christ. Such loving devotion should be commended.

G75 & RC are coming I can see it now. Their gonna cry foul for sure. 🙂




Manny

Originally posted by Conrau K
Firstly, this is a technicality, but you did not actually attend a Mass. Good Friday is the one day in the Christian calendar when a Mass is not celebrated. Communion is consecrated the night before on the Good Thursday Vigil...

It's not Maundy Thursday? I've never heard of Good Thursday.

Originally posted by Badwater
It's not Maundy Thursday? I've never heard of Good Thursday.

You are right. It is not Good Thursday; it is Holy Thursday or Maundy Thursday.

Originally posted by menace71
G75 & RC are coming I can see it now. Their gonna cry foul for sure. 🙂




Manny

"No reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,
"There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.
But you and I, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."

All along the watchtower, princes kept the view


Bob Dylan
All Along the Watchtower


All i am interested in is pancake Tuesday 😀

Originally posted by Conrau K
Whatever gestures people make to the cross are ultimately intended for Jesus Christ.

They were kissing the feet of a 12 inch plastic Jesus doll.

As is common here with devout Catholics, my own in-laws included, after mass finishes many people stay behind to worship a 1.5 metre plaster statue of Mary. My Father-in-law has a Mary grotto in his garden.

Originally posted by FMF
They were kissing the feet of a 12 inch plastic Jesus doll.

Yes. I am familiar with the ritual of the commemoration of the Passion. For reasons highlighted above, I do not think this is constitutive of idolatrous or violates the Mosaic prohibition against graven images.

Originally posted by FMF
As is common here with devout Catholics, my own in-laws included, after mass finishes many people stay behind to worship a 1.5 metre plaster statue of Mary. My Father-in-law has a Mary grotto in his garden.

An important distinction is necessary. In Catholic theology, there is three-tier distinction in religious veneration: latria, which is the highest form of worship, involving sacrifice and honor deserving only of God; hyperdulia, which is veneration, but not worship, granted exclusively to Mary because of her central place in salvation history as the mother of Jesus Christ; dulia, which is the honor accorded to individuals, such as the saints. Catholics do not regard hyperdulia or dulia as idolatrous. To say that these Catholics worship the statue of Mary does not accurately represent their religious faith.

Originally posted by Conrau K
Catholics do not regard hyper-dulia or dulia as idolatrous. To say that these Catholics worship the statue of Mary does not accurately represent their religious faith.

You are speaking on behalf of members of my family and my Catholic community here in Indonesia are you? On what basis do you do that?

Originally posted by Conrau K
I do not think this is constitutive of idolatrous or violates the Mosaic prohibition against graven images.

So it is permissable to view Jesus, at the moment one kisses the plastic feet, as NOT God?