04 Apr 10
Originally posted by Conrau KLol..Yes just call me Goliath if that makes you feel better. But argue and rationalize all you want. It's not me that's ignoring clear cut commands from God and following the paganistic worship and use of idols. Your churches are full of them.
[b]I understand completely what you are saying. But your not understanding the Bible at all. How much clearler can the Bible be when it says to not have an idol or image of anything in your midst?
Actually, you have no understanding of what I am saying. You are embarrassingly dumb. How many times do I have to say I am not justifying idols or the wors ...[text shortened]... ctrine of intercession from the use of icons. Two separate issues which only an idiot confuses.)[/b]
This is something that even a small child SHOULD be able to see, but the Catholics have let themselves be so blinded by their doctrines that the truth has been lost. 1John 5:21. ( If you happen to read this which I doubt, will you understand it? Probably not. )
04 Apr 10
There should be no objection if FMF did not want to kiss the feet of the Plastic Jesus. This is where I also separate with and from the Catholic church. "It's a freaking plastic Jesus" I would kinda be like no not me either!! Isaiah 40-42 talks about this so I have to agree with G75. A craftsmen makes the statue/idol whatever it may be and then most superstitious people can't make the distinction. God can't be reproduced with any craft we have on earth. Why kiss it or bow to the Mary? This is idolatrous in it's very essence.
Manny
04 Apr 10
Originally posted by menace71"I don't care if it rains or freezes
There should be no objection if FMF did not want to kiss the feet of the Plastic Jesus. This is where I also separate with and from the Catholic church. "It's a freaking plastic Jesus" I would kinda be like no not me either!! Isaiah 40-42 talks about this so I have to agree with G75. A craftsmen makes the statue/idol whatever it may be and then most supers ...[text shortened]... h. Why kiss it or bow to the Mary? This is idolatrous in it's very essence.
Manny
Long as I got my plastic Jesus."
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04 Apr 10
Originally posted by menace71Thanks Manny. I'm not trying to attack anyone in the Catholic church at all but it's just so beyond me how especially with this subject of using idols, even if a few don't worship them but use them in their minds as assistance in prayer some way. But the Buible says to not have them in your midst seems pretty clear.
There should be no objection if FMF did not want to kiss the feet of the Plastic Jesus. This is where I also separate with and from the Catholic church. "It's a freaking plastic Jesus" I would kinda be like no not me either!! Isaiah 40-42 talks about this so I have to agree with G75. A craftsmen makes the statue/idol whatever it may be and then most supers ...[text shortened]... h. Why kiss it or bow to the Mary? This is idolatrous in it's very essence.
Manny
And again go back to Jesus and he or none of his followers used them. If we needed them in some way why didn't Jesus direct us to that direction? But I do really feel sorry for the Catholic people that have gotten tricked by this and feel they have to have it to have a relationship with God.
And the reason I know how this can happen is many, many JW's were Catholic at one time and they all to a person said they did what their church told them and thought this was the only way to have a relationship with God, but knew in their hearts it was wrong according to what they knew of the Bible about idols..
One does not need them in anyway to worship God and God hates them period.
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04 Apr 10
Originally posted by menace71One of the major problems I have with Protestant criticism of this practice is that it makes no account of psychological attitude of the worshiper. Now I would say that this should be the crucial point. If a person kisses a statue of Jesus with the intention of worshiping Jesus, whom he believes to be God, how can this act be considered idolatrous? In all the cases from the Hebrew Scriptures, the intention is to worship another god and thereby obtain special petitions from it. The psychological attitude in these cases is so different and a comparison is unfair. In the first case, the worshiper wants to worship God; in the latter, person constructs an idol of another god.
There should be no objection if FMF did not want to kiss the feet of the Plastic Jesus. This is where I also separate with and from the Catholic church. "It's a freaking plastic Jesus" I would kinda be like no not me either!! Isaiah 40-42 talks about this so I have to agree with G75. A craftsmen makes the statue/idol whatever it may be and then most supers ...[text shortened]... h. Why kiss it or bow to the Mary? This is idolatrous in it's very essence.
Manny
04 Apr 10
Originally posted by Conrau KI would agree accept that man always seems to fall into the snare of worshiping the object not the creator himself. The bible records this happening. I don't know it just seems silly to kiss the feet of a plastic Jesus.
One of the major problems I have with Protestant criticism of this practice is that it makes no account of psychological attitude of the worshiper. Now I would say that this should be the crucial point. If a person kisses a statue of Jesus with the intention of worshiping Jesus, whom he believes to be God, how can this act be considered idolatrous? In all t ...[text shortened]... se, the worshiper wants to worship God; in the latter, person constructs an idol of another god.
Manny
05 Apr 10
1 edit
Originally posted by Conrau KI think the absurdity of the situation may be summed up in the following passages.
One of the major problems I have with Protestant criticism of this practice is that it makes no account of psychological attitude of the worshiper. Now I would say that this should be the crucial point. If a person kisses a statue of Jesus with the intention of worshiping Jesus, whom he believes to be God, how can this act be considered idolatrous? In all t ...[text shortened]... se, the worshiper wants to worship God; in the latter, person constructs an idol of another god.
(Isaiah 44:14-20) There is one whose business is to cut down cedars; and he takes a certain species of tree, even a massive tree, and he lets it become strong for himself among the trees of the forest. He planted the laurel tree, and the pouring rain itself keeps making it get big. And it has become [something] for man to keep a fire burning. So he takes part of it that he may warm himself. In fact he builds a fire and actually bakes bread. He also works on a god to which he may bow down. He has made it into a carved image, and he prostrates himself to it. Half of it he actually burns up in a fire. Upon half of it he roasts well the flesh that he eats, and he becomes satisfied. He also warms himself and says: “Aha! I have warmed myself. I have seen the firelight.” But the remainder of it he actually makes into a god itself, into his carved image. He prostrates himself to it and bows down and prays to it and says: “Deliver me, for you are my god.” They have not come to know, nor do they understand, because their eyes have been besmeared so as not to see, their heart so as to have no insight. And no one recalls to his heart or has knowledge or understanding, saying: “The half of it I have burned up in a fire, and upon its coals I have also baked bread; I roast flesh and eat. But the rest of it shall I make into a mere detestable thing? To the dried-out wood of a tree shall I prostrate myself?” He is feeding on ashes. His own heart that has been trifled with has led him astray. And he does not deliver his soul, nor does he say: “Is there not a falsehood in my right hand?”
(Psalm 115:3-8) . . .
But our God is in the heavens;
Everything that he delighted [to do] he has done.
Their idols are silver and gold,
The work of the hands of earthling man.
A mouth they have, but they cannot speak;
Eyes they have, but they cannot see;
Ears they have, but they cannot hear.
A nose they have, but they cannot smell.
Hands are theirs, but they cannot feel.
Feet are theirs, but they cannot walk;
They utter no sound with their throat.
Those making them will become just like them,
All those who are trusting in them.
Indeed how is the seeker of truth to explain the practice in view of these verses?
05 Apr 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe question I have is why can't they serve and talk to God without using these things? Has God ever said he would not listen to them unless they used an idol? Certainly not. Did Jesus ever say we had to do all those things? Certianly not. The one and only requirement is to pray thru Jesus's name. Such a simple and easy thing to do. No other strings attached at all.
I think the absurdity of the situation may be summed up in the following passages.
(Isaiah 44:14-20) There is one whose business is to cut down cedars; and he takes a certain species of tree, even a massive tree, and he lets it become strong for himself among the trees of the forest. He planted the laurel tree, and the pouring rain itself keeps m ...[text shortened]... g in them.
Indeed how is the seeker of truth to explain the practice in view of these verses?
And it would seem that without all these complicated rituals and rules and things they seemingly have to do according to their doctrines..life would be easier and their worship would be so much more enjoyable.
05 Apr 10
2 edits
Originally posted by galveston75mmm, i know, it seems to me Galvo, that one must attempt to justify the action, stating that, 'its not really worship', 'it simply a medium', etc etc. You are correct, the scriptures are condemnatory of the practice. It seems to me to be a kind of dummy tit, in that a dummy tit has no nutritional value (in this case the image can impart no spiritual nutritional value), but simply is a kind of an appeaser or substitute for the reality. How else are we to explain it?
The question I have is why can't they serve and talk to God without using these things? Has God ever said he would not listen to them unless they used an idol? Certainly not. Did Jesus ever say we had to do all those things? Certianly not. The one and only requirement is to pray thru Jesus's name. Such a simple and easy thing to do. No other strings atta ...[text shortened]... ng to their doctrines..life would be easier and their worship would be so much more enjoyable.
05 Apr 10
Originally posted by menace71Never mind that man, I just poured myself some cereal and one of the bran flakes has the unmistakable resemblance to the virgin Mary!!
I would agree accept that man always seems to fall into the snare of worshiping the object not the creator himself. The bible records this happening. I don't know it just seems silly to kiss the feet of a plastic Jesus.
Manny
Edt: I'll sell it to ya for a few hundred K.
05 Apr 10
Originally posted by whodeywhat type of cereal was it? muesli? wheetos? cornflakes? sugar puffs?
Never mind that man, I just poured myself some cereal and one of the bran flakes has the unmistakable resemblance to the virgin Mary!!
Edt: I'll sell it to ya for a few hundred K.
05 Apr 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou know as silly as the sightings are, it's still something that Satan uses to distract, confuse and get ones emotions all worked up. He is the mastrer deciever and has really done a job on religions....The World Empire of False Religion / Babylon The Great..
what type of cereal was it? muesli? wheetos? cornflakes? sugar puffs?
05 Apr 10
Originally posted by Conrau K""" psychological attitude"""
One of the major problems I have with Protestant criticism of this practice is that it makes no account of psychological attitude of the worshiper. Now I would say that this should be the crucial point. If a person kisses a statue of Jesus with the intention of worshiping Jesus, whom he believes to be God, how can this act be considered idolatrous? In all t ...[text shortened]... se, the worshiper wants to worship God; in the latter, person constructs an idol of another god.
What the heck does that mean??
05 Apr 10
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75Surely not as silly as thinking Satan exists?
You know as silly as the sightings are, it's still something that Satan uses to distract, confuse and get ones emotions all worked up. He is the mastrer deciever and has really done a job on religions....The World Empire of False Religion / Babylon The Great..
Next you'll be telling me pixies, goblins, unicorns, griffins, leprechauns, sea monsters, mermaids etc etc exist. Or would that just be daft?