Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem And God

Originally posted by RJHinds
Rare, unless you are a Jew.

The Instructor

I thought your Jesus was Jewish?

First you claim AB+ is rare.
Now you say it is not rare for Jews?
What exactly do you think it evidence of?

btw: AB+ is more common in Japan and Hungary than Israel.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
I thought your Jesus was Jewish?

First you claim AB+ is rare.
Now you say it is not rare for Jews?
What exactly do you think it evidence of?

btw: AB+ is more common in Japan and Hungary than Israel.

Yes, I believe Jesus was Jewish. So it would not be unusual for Jesus to have AB positive blood with the DNA analyzer result of the double x chromosome in the data report, since Jesus was both Jewish and also reported to have been born of a virgin.

That seems to narrow down the possible candidates for the man of the Shroud of Turin and the Sudarium of Oviedo.

Of course that is not all the evidence that should be considered. There is much more that identifies that man as the same Jesus that was crucified as described in the Holy Bible, when it is all put together.

The Instructor

I am specifically asking why you brought up the AB+ blood.

What do you think it proves or disproves?

http://thebloodconnection.org/about-blood/blood-education/blood-types/ab-positive/


AB- .6% and AB+ 3.4% pretty rare I would say

Manny

What would be the expected Genetic profile of a virgin Birth? Can we answer that scientifically ?


Manny

There follows an extensive discursus on the phenomenon of parthenogenesis (literally, from the Greek, "virgin birth"😉 in animals as well as in humans. (Yes, I said humans---Prof. Tipler cites the scientific references.) Then he stakes his claim:
I propose that Jesus was a special type of XX male, a type that is quite rare in humans but extensively studied [footnote omitted]. Approximately 1 out of every 20,000 human males is an XX male. . . . An XX male results when a single key gene for maleness on the Y chromosome (the SRY gene) is inserted into an X chromosome. One possibility is that all (or at least many) of the Y chromosome genes were inserted into one of Mary's X chromosomes and that, in her, one of the standard mechanisms used to turn off genes was active on these inserted Y genes. (There is an RNA process that can turn off an entire X chromosome. This is the most elegant turnoff mechanism.) Jesus would then have resulted when one of Mary's eggs started to divide before it became haploid and with the Y genes activated (and, of course, with the extra X genes deactivated). . . .
I hope I have quoted enough here to enable qualified geneticists to ascertain the basis of Professor Tipler's claim to have an explanation for the Virgin Birth of Jesus. As I understand it, the genetics of Jesus would have marked him as an unusually rare male of the species, and if we could somehow have access to a blood sample, we could determine whether or not Professor Tipler's theory was correct. And to give him his due, Prof. Tipler states as much:
If a sample of Jesus' blood and/or flesh could be obtained, my proposal could easily be tested by carrying out two distinct DNA tests for sex: (1) test for the Y genes and (2) test for the two alleles (different gene forms) of X chromosome genes. In other words, a male born of a virgin would have two X chromosome genes for each of its counterpart Y genes. Normal males would only have one X chromosome gene for each Y counterpart gene. This pairing would apply to each of the thirteen genes on the Y chromosome that has an X counterpart.
The odds of such a "virgin birth" would truly be fantastic, as Professor Tipler calculates here:
Such a virgin birth would be improbable. If the measured probability that a single Y gene is inserted into an X chromosome is 1 in 20,000, then the probability that all Y genes are inserted into an X chromosome is 1/20,000 raised to the 28th power, the power corresponding to the number of Y genes. (Assuming that the insertion of each Y gene has equal probability and that these insertions are independent.) There have been only about 100 billion humans born since behaviorally modern Homo sapiens evolved . . . .

Thus, the virgin birth of such an XX male would be unique in human history even if there were only two such Y genes inserted into an X chromosome. (I assume an upper bound to the rate of virgin birth is 1/300. Then the probability of a virgin birth of a male with 2 Y genes is 1/[300][20,000][20,000] = 1/120 billion.) But . . . if such an event had to occur [for God to exist according to physical laws that have shown themselves thus far as true], then the Virgin Birth probability would become 1; that is, certain to occur. In other words, it would be a miracle!

Taken from a Critique of this book: The Physics of Christianity


Manny

Originally posted by menace71
There follows an extensive discursus on the phenomenon of parthenogenesis (literally, from the Greek, "virgin birth"😉 in animals as well as in humans. (Yes, I said humans---Prof. Tipler cites the scientific references.) Then he stakes his claim:
I propose that Jesus was a special type of XX male, a type that is quite rare in humans but extensively studied ...[text shortened]... iracle!

Taken from a Critique of this book: The Physics of Christianity


Manny

It's a little known fact that there are virgin births, but I thought the babies were always female. I didn't know there was a way (however rare) for a male to be naturally conceived in this way.

It doesn't take anything away from a belief in supernatural conception. But anyone saying a virgin birth is impossible (especially if the baby is male) will need to reevaluate that position, and focus on the rarity of such an event rather than the event itself.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
I am specifically asking why [b]you brought up the AB+ blood.

What do you think it proves or disproves?[/b]

I brought up the blood type because it was mentioned on the video and proves that real blood was on both cloths and it was there before the image was produced, just like the Holy Bible says.

The Instructor

Originally posted by lemon lime
It's a little known fact that there are virgin births, but I thought the babies were always female. I didn't know there was a way (however rare) for a male to be naturally conceived in this way.

It doesn't take anything away from a belief in supernatural conception. But anyone saying a virgin birth is impossible (especially if the baby is male) ...[text shortened]... valuate that position, and focus on the rarity of such an event rather than the event itself.

True we usually look at odds in the sense of how improbable it is that something might happen and not the other way around


Manny

Originally posted by lemon lime
It's a little known fact that there are virgin births,.....

Reference please. Is there a single documented case of a human virgin birth?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Reference please. Is there a single documented case of a human virgin birth?

Only Jesus. The virgin birth of Jesus was not parthenogenesis, but a miracle.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
Only Jesus. The virgin birth of Jesus was not parthenogenesis, but a miracle.

The Instructor

So why did you mention the double x chromosome? It would have no relevance in the case of a miracle.

Originally posted by menace71
http://thebloodconnection.org/about-blood/blood-education/blood-types/ab-positive/


AB- .6% and AB+ 3.4% pretty rare I would say

Manny

AB+ is 7% for Israel.
O-, A-, B- and AB are all rarer.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
AB+ is 7% for Israel.
O-, A-, B- and AB are all rarer.

What is the most rare type of blood?

In a random breakdown of 100 people, we would expect to find approximately:


Blood Type: Number of people per 100

O+ ......... 37

O- .......... 6

A+ ......... 34

A- .......... 6

B+ ......... 10

B- .......... 2

AB+ ......... 4

AB- ......... 1

http://www.uhs.berkeley.edu/home/blooddrives/faq.shtml

My wife has O- blood and can donate blood to anybody, but can only take O- blood.
A person with AB+ can receive blood from anybody, but can only donate to an AB+ person.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds


http://www.uhs.berkeley.edu/home/blooddrives/faq.shtml

My wife has O- blood and can donate blood to anybody, but can only take O- blood.
A person with AB+ can receive blood from anybody, but can only donate to an AB+ person.

The Instructor

PhD in statistics now?

Blood groups are not randomly distributed around the world so
your stats are worthless.

Everyone here with a pulse knows about universal donors (i am one too)
and universal acceptors.

And I ask again - why did you bring up the blood type? What does it prove?
(Or what do you want it to prove?)