has anybody here actually changed their view?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
it takes a greater leap of faith my friend from non living matter to the production of a living cell, than belief in a supernatural agency, but everyone to their own. 🙂

Only for the uneducated.

Originally posted by galveston75
Your viewpoint of that obviously differs from Jesus's....

And where exactly did Jesus contradict me?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes if our friend knew anything about farming he would know that the sheep follow the shepherd whereas the goats are want to do their own thing.

Isn't that what I said?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Only for the uneducated.

actually no, indeed quite the opposite as you are very well aware, pray tell of the 100 or so amino acids known to man, how did 22 manage to formulate themselves into the correct sequence in order to produce proteins the basic building blocks of life and what is the mathematical probability of this happening?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Isn't that what I said?

no its not, you said the sheep follow the crowd, i stated they follow the shepherd. What is more, they will not follow anyone whom they do not know and trust.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what is the mathematical probability of this happening?

1 as time goes to infinity.

Originally posted by Palynka
1 as time goes to infinity.

the probability please without a condition attached

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
the probability please without a condition attached

But you are the one inserting a condition by wanting to limit the time-frame.

If I roll a dice once, the probability I roll a 6 is 1/6. But if I roll it 10 times then it's 1-5/6^10.

How many times were the amino-acids dice rolled?

Originally posted by Palynka
But you are the one inserting a condition by wanting to limit the time-frame.

If I roll a dice once, the probability I roll a 6 is 1/6. But if I roll it 10 times then it's 1-5/6^10.

How many times were the amino-acids dice rolled?

well it cannot be more than the age of the universe can it, which as far as i am aware is limited. Indeed how many times would it take to roll the amino acid dice to get the correct sequence and then let us compare that number with an event estimated to be almost as never happening which as far as i am aware is in the region of 1X10^50

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
well it cannot be more than the age of the universe can it, which as far as i am aware is limited. Indeed how many times would it take to roll the amino acid dice to get the correct sequence and then let us compare that number with an event estimated to be almost as never happening which as far as i am aware is in the region of 1X10^50

Regardless, the probability as time goes to infinity is 1. And the universe is also a big place.

Unless you want to make a claim about how many times amino-acids combine in the whole universe per second, then you can't really claim it's unlikely.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no its not, you said the sheep follow the crowd, i stated they follow the shepherd. What is more, they will not follow anyone whom they do not know and trust.

Well what I said was more accurate. Sheep do follow the crowd, and generally do not follow the shepherd (hence the need for 'herding'😉, and will quite readily be herded by just about anyone.
I must note that I do have more experience with goats having grown up with them. My only experience with sheep is on my sisters farm where she has a mixed herd of sheep and goats (called shoats).

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
well it cannot be more than the age of the universe can it, which as far as i am aware is limited. Indeed how many times would it take to roll the amino acid dice to get the correct sequence and then let us compare that number with an event estimated to be almost as never happening which as far as i am aware is in the region of 1X10^50

Why do you try to use scientific calculations to prove your religion? Are you so weak in your faith that you really need science?
If you do, then you have to rely on the science, and not, as you do, give the answer and then demand the mathematical expressions that lead to your answer.

Don't mix science into your religion. It cannot be done.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
well it cannot be more than the age of the universe can it, which as far as i am aware is limited. Indeed how many times would it take to roll the amino acid dice to get the correct sequence and then let us compare that number with an event estimated to be almost as never happening which as far as i am aware is in the region of 1X10^50

Seems like you're talking here about rolling *one* amino acid die, neglecting the other bazillions of rolls made by other amino acids

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
well it cannot be more than the age of the universe can it, which as far as i am aware is limited. Indeed how many times would it take to roll the amino acid dice to get the correct sequence and then let us compare that number with an event estimated to be almost as never happening which as far as i am aware is in the region of 1X10^50

We would need to know:
1. The number of amino acids required to make the 'correct sequence'.
2. The number of times amino acids combine by chance per second in the universe.
3. The age of the universe.
4. The number of possible 'correct sequences' that could work.
Since it is highly unlikely that you know any of those numbers to any degree of accuracy, I find it unreasonable that you have made a conclusion regarding the answer. All we have to go on is the fact that it apparently did happen (assuming that is how life started) which would seem to indicate that the probability is high - but then again, it is not wise to deduce anything probability-wise from a single known result.

And even then, for the answer to be relevant, we would need to assume that the hypothesis is correct in the first place (the hypothesis being that life started from a random coincidence with amino acids rather than by some other process).

Originally posted by Blackamp
has anybody here actually changed their view on spiritual matters as a result of rational argument / debate? have any believers become non-believers, or vice versa, or has anyone changed to a new faith / denomination? could such argument / debate change your views, or are you just here to convert others to your own view while resisting convers ...[text shortened]... of them - and they just don't seem to be capable of the work required.

any thoughts?

while most won't admit to having their views changed, it is an immutable law of science that the mere observation of an object or idea changes both the viewed and the viewer. They may not have moved in the direction intended by the debater, but movement is made. Often times when up against a diametrically opposed idea, the debater will move into a deeper belief of their own values or ideas, as seems to be the case in this forum