1. Subscribersonhouse
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    27 Feb '13 13:54
    I would like to live and work and advance in Provo without being pressured to become a Mormon.

    I would like to walk around in Iran as a clear westerner without being the subject of a jihad.

    I would like to be a gay person in trouble and going to a Salvation Army post and not get turned out BECAUSE I am gay.

    I would like to be in Sudan without having my family and me killed because we refuse to convert to Islam

    I would like to walk around in Jerusalem in the year 1000 and not be the subject of a religious war.

    I would like to be a 12 year old in Kentucky and learn evolution as a science without being subjected to creationism as if that were a science.

    I would like to be helped by a church when I am in trouble without having the propaganda of a church service being forced on my as part of the deal of getting help.

    I would like to be a woman in Islam and have the same rights as a man.

    I would like to be a woman in ANY religion and have the same rights as a man.

    All the above are just theoretical constructs, since I am none of those things, they are just examples of how people are treated in religion.

    I want to live in a society where there is freedom FROM religion not freedom OF religion.
  2. Joined
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    27 Feb '13 14:37
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I would like to live and work and advance in Provo without being pressured to become a Mormon.

    I would like to walk around in Iran as a clear westerner without being the subject of a jihad.

    I would like to be a gay person in trouble and going to a Salvation Army post and not get turned out BECAUSE I am gay.

    I would like to be in Sudan without havin ...[text shortened]... n.

    I want to live in a society where there is freedom FROM religion not freedom OF religion.
    "I want to live in a society where there is freedom FROM religion not freedom OF religion."

    All perfectly reasonable request's, but is it your position that "freedom FROM religion" and "freedom OF religion" are mutually exclusive.
  3. SubscriberSuzianne
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    27 Feb '13 16:58
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I want to live in a society where there is freedom FROM religion not freedom OF religion.
    All I want is freedom FROM "freedom FROM religion".

    Okay, you're atheist, I get it. Stop shoving it down my throat.
  4. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    27 Feb '13 17:521 edit
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    All I want is freedom FROM "freedom FROM religion".

    Okay, you're atheist, I get it. Stop shoving it down my throat.
    And your defending which religion that doesn't shove things down people's throats? oh thats right, Christianity.
    For your information there are other religions that dont actually shove it down your throat at all, like Zen Buddhism, heck even the Hare Krsna's are more reserved with converting people and they run around singing and dancing to the words of their god.
    I only know very few Christians who really dont shove it down your throat. There are exceptions but thats the general rule in my part of the world.


    BTW, thanks for showing me how to spell "throat". Seriously, I couldn't work it out.
  5. SubscriberSuzianne
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    27 Feb '13 20:281 edit
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    And your defending which religion that doesn't shove things down people's throats? oh thats right, Christianity.
    For your information there are other religions that dont actually shove it down your throat at all, like Zen Buddhism, heck even the Hare Krsna's are more reserved with converting people and they run around singing and dancing to the words ...[text shortened]...


    BTW, thanks for showing me how to spell "throat". Seriously, I couldn't work it out.
    Wow, I guess a little comparison shopping goes a long way. 🙂

    I used those precise words *because* people keep complaining that this is what Christians do. I was, you know, making a point.
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    27 Feb '13 20:31
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    All I want is freedom FROM "freedom FROM religion".

    Okay, you're atheist, I get it. Stop shoving it down my throat.
    Oh come on! Ever since humans came across something they didn't understand we have had one god after another thrust on us. How about we take responsibility for ourselves and stop looking for supernatural help!
  7. Subscribersonhouse
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    28 Feb '13 02:031 edit
    Originally posted by OdBod
    Oh come on! Ever since humans came across something they didn't understand we have had one god after another thrust on us. How about we take responsibility for ourselves and stop looking for supernatural help!
    What he said. BTW Suzianne, I never professed to be atheist, at least strong atheist, like denying the POSSIBILITY of a god or gods. I am maybe more like agnostic. The real deal is I don't give a shyte one way or the other. It is clear the alleged god you worship is a hands off god, there are no miracles and I see no evidence of any kind of supernatural attributes to mankind like a soul.

    I can't deny the possibility of god(s) but if they exist, and they or it created us, they or it has left us strictly alone to meet the same fate of the dinosaurs who got offed by a combination of extreme bad weather, mainly mega volcanism, and that humungus asteroid strike near Cancun, now thought to be a double whammy, TWO asteroids hitting at the same time in the same place, made a hole 180 odd miles in diameter 65 million years ago and spread wildfires in a 3000 mile radius and shoved debris 700 feet deep as far away as Burmuda. That can be enough to ruin your day all by itself but there is evidence that and the volcanism didn't off ALL the dino's but they all went under within a few million years anyway, making room for us mammals. We can go EXACTLY the same way but now we have some pretty advanced technology that can track the fluckers millions of miles away and given a couple decades advance notice, we can pull the sucker out of the way far enough that it misses our jewel of a planet. So it is clear to me, at least, if a big asteroid happened to have Earth in its aim, it will be up to us to knock it the hell out of the way and there will be no help from some alleged god. It will be 100% up to us to save our sorry asses.
  8. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    28 Feb '13 02:19
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Wow, I guess a little comparison shopping goes a long way. 🙂

    I used those precise words *because* people keep complaining that this is what Christians do. I was, you know, making a point.
    Very diplomatic of you. My hat off to you missy.
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    28 Feb '13 02:34
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    ...if a big asteroid happened to have Earth in its aim, it will be up to us to knock it the hell out of the way and there will be no help from some alleged god. It will be 100% up to us to save our sorry asses.
    I once asked a Christian, after he told me that God is absolutely sovereign over every particle in the Universe, if we should refrain from tampering with an asteroid that is on a trajectory that will make it collide with Earth--the idea being that the asteroid's orbital parameters were made that way deliberately by God. He refused to give me a straightforward answer.
  10. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    28 Feb '13 02:40
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    What he said. BTW Suzianne, I never professed to be atheist, at least strong atheist, like denying the POSSIBILITY of a god or gods. I am maybe more like agnostic. The real deal is I don't give a shyte one way or the other. It is clear the alleged god you worship is a hands off god, there are no miracles and I see no evidence of any kind of supernatural att ...[text shortened]... ere will be no help from some alleged god. It will be 100% up to us to save our sorry asses.
    And "science" may need to need to become more united if we are to able to achieve the ability to be able to knock an asteroid out of the sky no problems.
    I was just listening to a critique on 4ZZZ (local independent radio) , about the rise of science and capitalism - on the surface of it they seem a bit mismatched but as I discovered science isn't so united as it seems here on the spirituality forum.
    There are many scientists with investors interests for starters.
    There are so many different disciplines that come under the umbrella of 'science', making the uninnitiated to believe that all scientists are united the way an organized religion is united, which is not the case at all. Scientists have been at loggerheads with eachother, where notable scientists like Tesla were dismissed as a crackpots,Tesla dying a poor man despite being the man who invented the AC current, an amazing leap that is still the main form of electricity in most homes. Not to mention the countless inventions he patented and that have been used for decades, or are still in use.
    He is just one crackpot that slipped through the net and got his story out some how.
    Dont get me wrong though, I see the science forum here as largely harmless and generally very curious and informative. It seems most of the regular posters have a genuine ,non-profit based motive for posting. But the at some point science seems to have overtake capitalism, where capitalism recognizes that too much advancement means cheaper and more efficient energy, which is not exactly what the capitalist establishment hopes for, as it becomes more and more counter intuitive to make a profit off of your fellow man... (you may be able to get a link to that story on 'capitalism and science' on 4ZZZ.org.au)
  11. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    28 Feb '13 02:44
    Originally posted by Paul Dirac II
    I once asked a Christian, after he told me that God is absolutely sovereign over every particle in the Universe, if we should refrain from tampering with an asteroid that is on a trajectory that will make it collide with Earth--the idea being that the asteroid's orbital parameters were made that way deliberately by God. He refused to give me a straightforward answer.
    No way man.
    Oh imagine where that sort of thinking would lead us. No condoms. No tampering with male superiority. Accepting the hangmans noose when Clint Eastwood offered to shoot you down and rescue if you paid him off, and due to your lack of corruptibility ,rejected his offer.
    I believe some call it "cutting off your nose despite your face."
  12. Standard memberRJHinds
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    28 Feb '13 02:56
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    And your defending which religion that doesn't shove things down people's throats? oh thats right, Christianity.
    For your information there are other religions that dont actually shove it down your throat at all, like Zen Buddhism, heck even the Hare Krsna's are more reserved with converting people and they run around singing and dancing to the words ...[text shortened]...


    BTW, thanks for showing me how to spell "throat". Seriously, I couldn't work it out.
    I am sure you realize you have a choice to accept or reject Christianity, so it is not forced on you. As a Christian it is our duty to let you know about it. I am sorry you consider that shoving it down your throat, but we are not threating you with bodily harm, but simply warning you of the eternal consequences for your soul. You are free to believe it or not.
  13. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    28 Feb '13 03:091 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I am sure you realize you have a choice to accept or reject Christianity, so it is not forced on you. As a Christian it is our duty to let you know about it. I am sorry you consider that shoving it down your throat, but we are not threating you with bodily harm, but simply warning you of the eternal consequences for your soul. You are free to believe it or not.
    You are free to let me know, but consider that I, as a busker on the streets for 20 years, have encountered so many well meaning christians all with the desire for them to share with me the glory of Christ or whatever, where there is absolutely nothing I can say that will convince them that I myself may have some spiritual experience.

    And I do accept Christianity as a valid method for some people's divinations, but obviously its never going to take over the world, so llets just leave things as they are,eh? As long as they remain peaceful the Muslims can believe what they want and so can the rest of 'em. I mean you and a whole bunch of Christians have already told them , in sooooo many different ways, that you've done your Christian duty. Lets see where the chips fall, we've all made our bets now.
  14. Standard memberRJHinds
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    28 Feb '13 03:11
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I would like to live and work and advance in Provo without being pressured to become a Mormon.

    I would like to walk around in Iran as a clear westerner without being the subject of a jihad.

    I would like to be a gay person in trouble and going to a Salvation Army post and not get turned out BECAUSE I am gay.

    I would like to be in Sudan without havin ...[text shortened]... n.

    I want to live in a society where there is freedom FROM religion not freedom OF religion.
    I can understand what you are saying and you have a valid point. I don't like people coming to my door to bother me about things I am not interested in. I too do not like to be treated like an outcast because I have a different belief. But I also believe having freedom requires us to help others obtain freedom and warn them of the dangers ahead.
  15. Standard membersumydid
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    28 Feb '13 05:051 edit
    Originally posted by OdBod
    Oh come on! Ever since humans came across something they didn't understand we have had one god after another thrust on us. How about we take responsibility for ourselves and stop looking for supernatural help!
    We Christians take full responsibility for ourselves, and have no reason to look for anything. And by the way, no god could possibly be thrust upon any genuine Atheist. That being said--and being fact--what sense does your post make? None whatsoever.
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