Hearts and minds

@kellyjay said
Well without the revelation of scripture, I'm not sure where you get your information about God being either good or bad. Maybe you are looking at something other than the Bible, I suppose that is possible; nonetheless, within the Bible, there is nothing to suggest God is anything other than good, and He is always good just as He is always righteous, and so on.

The natur ...[text shortened]... God is the perfect good and love is the best we could have, anything short of that is, well short.

Be realistic.

Would a good father leave his very young kids playing in a garden, unattended? Especially knowing that an evil and mean serpent was lurking around on one of the two trees, who was waiting to bite some sense into them? The venomous knowledge of Good and Evil.

Would you be satisfied, as meeting your responsibilities as an all-knowing father, with just telling them not to touch one of the trees, but the rest they could? Adam and Eve began to wander around that tree, and wondered, what's so special about that tree?

Would you be satisfied, as a human father, with telling your already-walking two years-old child not to stick metal objects in any of the reachable, electrical wall outlets? Just telling him that if he did, he will die? And you also happened to be an electrician by trade? You at least could have also explained to him Ohm's law, about current, which is what kills you and not the voltage? You could have explained grounding requirement, the before and after effects of playing around with electricity.

And would you not also, since you have to go to work and leave him alone, take necessary precautions to mitigate, as much as possible, at least the danger of electrocution?

And even if you are a stay-at-home dad, or maybe just remote working from you house, would it take any more than a few seconds of inattention on your part, for your toddler to have the time necessary to stick a metal object in one of the lower wall outlets?

Did you Honestly, believe that by simply PROHIBITING him, that it would PREVENT him from trying it? You must be a DIVER too, besides an electrician, a diver into fantasy.

Would you blame them, and the wall socket too? And not yourself?

Somebody may ask you, after you are finished with the mourning stage, how come you did not buy those readily available, low cost, Safety Protection outlet covers, which are said to protect your children from accidents and prevent electrocution? These very inexpensive outlet plugs can make sure that your little explorer cannot reach into your home’s electric sockets, as advertised.

This dad, a union-certified licensed electrician, had an extra line written on the grave's polished head stone. Here lies Tommy, a disobedient and evil toddler, who died by electrocution.

Poor Tommy, he was told by his garden pet, a talking king snake, that he would not die, but actually become like his father, an electrician, if he stuck it in the socket.

Tommy was never told he never had died before. How could he know what death was, unless he tried it first?

All the above is what I once was told. And I don't remember who, where, and why. But it's a true story. Or at least I believed it to be true, because I went out and bought a pack of 32 wall outlets safety covers, I have two children of my own. But they are all grown up not. Now I'm buying them for my two grand kids.

And If I had enough sense to do that, and I'm not God, since I don't know everything, then God must be an idiot, and a bad father, to not put a childproof fence around that damned tree.

But I would be really childish myself, to believe that God would allow anything to happen to his Children, especially since he built the physical universe as our playground. God First, Safety First!

Psalm 4:8: In peace I will lie down and sleep, for you alone, Lord, make me dwell in safety.

Psalm 5:11: But let all who take refuge in you rejoice; let them ever sing for joy. Spread your protection over them, that those who love your name may rejoice in you.

Please Lord, next time, create the safety wall sockets before you create electricity. And no snakes either, I want only a dog,as a pet, and a teddy bear for a toy.

That's all....AMEN!

@pettytalk said
Be realistic.

Would a good father leave his very young kids playing in a garden, unattended? Especially knowing that an evil and mean serpent was lurking around on one of the two trees, who was waiting to bite some sense into them? The venomous knowledge of Good and Evil.

Would you be satisfied, as meeting your responsibilities as an all-knowing father, with just te ...[text shortened]... nd no snakes either, I want only a dog,as a pet, and a teddy bear for a toy.

That's all....AMEN!

God told them not to do one thing, only one thing was to be avoided the snake couldn't force anything on them, had they trusted God from the onset none of this would have happened, but they didn't. Even now we get tempted and can resist, in Christ the power of sin has been broken over us.

Nothing in all of creation is unattended, God is eternal and infinite in scope, knowledge, and power. God doesn't sleep, He doesn't take His eyes off of any part of creation at any time. The knowledge of good and evil was given to them in temptation in such a way that they were told they would be like God knowing good and evil the lie was believed.

The tree wasn't the issue, it was having faith in God, believing what He said, and trusting that He wanted the best for them, they wanted what they wanted and they fell. Explanations about a warning given should not have been necessary, if you see or get told something is dangerous stay away, do you need a breakdown of the physics involved and how your biology will be harmed before you heed the warning if the source is trustworthy?

We do put up child protection devices because children don't understand, but the level of understanding for an adult and a child are different, if an adult knows the dangers and still has to be protected from doing something stupid that could cause his death he could even defeat the engineering protections to protect him from harm, if you want to do something stupid, you will.

There was a web page about how people's stupidity weeds out the gene pool by the moronic things they do, I think it may have been called the "The Darwin's Awards" or something like that, I don't recall. I don't know if it is still up and active.

Adam and Eve had no fear in the beginning, no shame, nothing negative, before the fall there was no need. It wasn't until they rebelled against what God told them, that that fear entered the human race. God wanted real people who honestly love Him and each other, not robots, or people who would pretend to avoid a sure-to-come wrath.

Do you have a way you'd set up a universe with people who walk in truth and will freely love and not fake it? How would you make one up, no robots, will do good, not evil.

-Removed-

If the wind is blowing your way, I'll be sure to drink a case of beer before the wind dies down. And I don't have prostate problems, which means that my stream is full force, and far-reaching. If you don't want to get wet, you better get out of the way,

@kellyjay said
God told them not to do one thing, only one thing was to be avoided the snake couldn't force anything on them, had they trusted God from the onset none of this would have happened, but they didn't. Even now we get tempted and can resist, in Christ the power of sin has been broken over us.

Nothing in all of creation is unattended, God is eternal and infinite in scope, kno ...[text shortened]... and will freely love and not fake it? How would you make one up, no robots, will do good, not evil.

Do you mean to tell me that I did not even get a smile out of you, for going to the trouble of making up the story to fit the theme?

And now you are asking me to create my own universe? That will take at least 6 days, even if I were as good as our Father. Perhaps I can do it in 7, without the rest. What will be my reward? You only get one free story, the rest must be paid. Adam and Eve were allowed only one instance of disobedience and they got kicked out of the house. Hell, even in the game of Baseball you are allowed three strikes before you're kicked out of the batter's box at home plate. Peter was also allowed three denials, before the rooster crowed.

Jesus tells his own disciples, when asked if they should forgive 7 times, not 7, but 70 times 7, and that comes to 490 times. And you really believe his father would only forgive once? Did you ever think about that, at least 7 times? I can't even count how many times God forgive Israel in those 40 years he made them wander in the desert, but he still gave them the promised land. It would take too long to count the times they were forgiven while living in the promised land. But I certainly hope he will forgive them for what they are currently doing in the land of their fathers; Gaza strip and the West Bank. The forgiven become the unforgiving. I recall there is a nice parable about that very thing told by Jesus.

And you still have the gall to believe that God took away eternal life from Adam and Eve just for stealing one apple off a tree with at least 5 full bushels left on it? What would God do with that fruit? He was already full of it. Full to the brim with omniscience. The fruit would have ripened and all of it fallen to the ground. What a waste! Although apparently knowledge cannot be wasted if you put it to good use. Or as science tells us, Data cannot be lost, no, not even in black holes. I argue that it can in dark and brainwashed, half-empty minds. I'm running on empty myself.

You really don't see that in the story, it's God who lied, and not the snake? If you can't see that, you will definitely not see why it is so, and what is really represented in the lie and the truth which both God and the snake spoke.

And for your information, God not only rests one day out of the week, but he also sleeps while resting. I have heard his snore, and watched him while he sleeps. God is infinitely funny when he sleeps. He often falls asleep trying to watch everything on TV.

I would seriously try to create my own universe for you, but God has already created one for me, and you. it's already the best it can be. And I would not change anything, not even your mind, obviously.

God bless you for your immovable faith. You must be the mountain which even Jesus could not budge, let alone move it to the sea.

How many times did your parents forgive you? Or are you the symbol of the perfect child every parent wants? One that never disobeyed when asked to help with the house chores, and did not ask for a weekly allowance for doing the work?

Do you have outlet covers in your house?

@pettytalk said
Do you mean to tell me that I did not even get a smile out of you, for going to the trouble of making up the story to fit the theme?

And now you are asking me to create my own universe? That will take at least 6 days, even if I were as good as our Father. Perhaps I can do it in 7, without the rest. What will be my reward? You only get one free story, the rest must be pa ...[text shortened]... did not ask for a weekly allowance for doing the work?

Do you have outlet covers in your house?

There are eternal consequences for these things, I get people making up stories all of the time about fossils they are just stories if they have no historical basis. People come about with theories about what occurred billions or millions of years ago and sometimes they bring into their stories events and variables that are made up and call it science. With some here if the natural world is not where the answers come into play fully they automatically take that as an error because they cannot conceive of reality being anything other than the material world.

The fall of man corrupted man's nature it wasn't just that one act of disobedience for that act's sake it altered man's nature. Shortly after that event the first murder occurred, and it started going downhill after that. As I said God created us to be His image bearers and when we got corrupted the very meaning of our lives was ruined, to where we unlike God no longer love Him and each other with the love God has, but instead we turned from carrying for others to ourselves.

I was listening to Del Tackett the other day speak about love, we have altered that word to where the Biblical definition of it is completely lost. We now say things like I love pizza, I love the Chicago Cubs, I love the way my new shoes feel when I walk, I love that movie, and so on. Love is now all about us, what makes us feel good, and what we get out of it, while Biblically it is always for the other. Genuine heart-felt love is the goal, a life motivated by love.

A race that reflects God in His image was what God started, and is still doing with us, conforming those who come to Christ, to be made in Christ's image, but to be real the ability to say no had to be just as real. God's sacrificial love for us has God coming into our world, taking on all of our guilt and shame and becoming sin for us so we could be redeemed and justified so that even God's holiness and righteousness could be satisfied in our forgiveness at the cross.

I asked you to come up with a plan to make a race of people who love and do it without all of the pain and suffering you think could have been avoided.

-Removed-

You, a Christian? Please, don't make me laugh. I'm certain that Christ is laughing along with me, or rather through me, as the Holy Ghost. After all, I am an official member of the Chamber of Ghosts.

If you were a Christian, you would be following Jesus Christ, and not FMF. Tell me, how is it that as soon as one of you two shows up in a thread, the other soon follows?

As a faithful follower of Jesus, you would not be harassing and persecuting your fellow brother in Christ, KellyJay. You should be helping him, and not keep trying to trip him up with persistent questioning of bible text, and bible facts, just to knock (mock) his totally convinced faith in humanity's sinfulness. Which he also believes, unconditionally, that can only be forgiven through the redemption of the redeemer's, blood, sweet, and tears he suffered on the cross, to put some sense into all our living in a sinful way. All stemming from one blasted apple from a tree full of evil knowledge. Which did not do any good to mankind, as a whole. Those dumb two picked a bad apple off the tree instead of a good one, apparently.

“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” ----Jesus

The questions of facts and figures about life and existence will be provided to all, in the end. They are called, cold facts. When 'you' are dead and cold, the truth will warm you up. I'm using the term, you, loosely, but collectively. The warmth level depends on the kind of welcome you get on the other side. But for you, personally, I would not bring an overcoat.

@kellyjay said
There are eternal consequences for these things, I get people making up stories all of the time about fossils they are just stories if they have no historical basis. People come about with theories about what occurred billions or millions of years ago and sometimes they bring into their stories events and variables that are made up and call it science. With some here if the ...[text shortened]... f people who love and do it without all of the pain and suffering you think could have been avoided.

Do you really love pizza? I do too. Do you really love the Cubs? I do too. Blasted, you must be a brother Chicagoan, and a Northsider? Hot dog! And Italian beef, at it's finest. A sinful way to get high cholesterol, and blocked arteries, when we add corned beef to it. And these treats are devilish temptations for the palate.

How about that, we have touched upon agreement. Love! imagine that.

Are you the beloved, or the lover, when it comes to the taking and giving of love?

This getting interesting with all the jumping around from topic to topic.

@pettytalk said
Do you really love pizza? I do too. Do you really love the Cubs? I do too. Blasted, you must be a brother Chicagoan, and a Northsider? Hot dog! And Italian beef, at it's finest. A sinful way to get high cholesterol, and blocked arteries, when we add corned beef to it. And these treats are devilish temptations for the palate.

How about that, we have touched upon agreeme ...[text shortened]... g and giving of love?

This getting interesting with all the jumping around from topic to topic.

Grew up in central Illinois if you were there have you ever had Monical’s pizza? My all time favorite thin crust pizza!!

@kellyjay said
Grew up in central Illinois if you were there have you ever had Monical’s pizza? My all time favorite thin crust pizza!!

I grew up in Chicago. My favorite pizza we make at home, still. But dining out, there are a number of places to have excellent pizza in Chicago. Lou Malnati's for pan pizza is first choice. They also have thin pizza on the menu. It's difficult to find the best from so many places which are available in the Chicago area, since so many of them make very good pizza.

But to your question, no, I can't say that have heard of your favorite place, right off the top of my head. I have not lived in Chicago for nearly 40 years, although I visited there when I could, to see family and friends. I still do, even though folks passed on years ago. Still have a cousin or two there, as well as some old family friends, and some personal too. I'll look the place up with Google, like everything else, these days.

Anyway, I went to Lane Tech high school, and it was near Wrigley field. Back in those days the Cubs only played day games. And in the 7th inning, they would open the gates to the outfield bleachers, and let people in without needing tickets. I was a bad boy sometimes, and cut out of school early, skipping an afternoon class, to go see the end of the games for free. But not too often, as I had a day with an afternoon free study period, where we were free to go to the library, or go study at home. I went to study the game of baseball, I would say, as an excuse to myself and my conscience.

We have the state of Lincoln in common then, and not the city. Lincoln can be considered an American Moses, since he was key, as US president, to free the latest of God's people in bondage. But apparently they did not need Lincoln to take them to the promised land, since they are here, in the real promised land, where all God's different people of the world live together, in the land of Milk and Honey. Although we do have some issues to workout. And we got lots of Petroleum too.

Moses must have taken the wrong turn, since he went north instead of south. Because with all the petroleum reserves in the Arabian peninsula, he could have bought more milk and honey for his people, to last until Jesus returns, to turn them back towards the right direction, and take everyone to the real, real, real promised land. The promised land for the soul, not for the physical body.

What do you think about this? The Exodus from Egypt is symbolic of the freeing of the physical body only. Jesus' promise to return, is symbolic of taking us back to the promised land of the soul, where all our troubles started, and finish.