Spirituality
09 Oct 18
10 Oct 18
@secondson saidWell, you have basically conceded that you don't: you said "The testimony of God Himself is all the evidence you need, and literally the only real evidence there is. "
I didn't say I didn't have evidence.
10 Oct 18
@fmf saidNo. Actually your question involves circular reasoning. The evidence for that is demonstrated by your posting style. You see, you repeat the same things in every thread, which is evidence for mental blockage.
Does this "something better" involve circular reasoning or you simply asserting stuff?
You have a limited grasp of things spiritual because you base evidence on what you can sense on a physical level, which does provide ample evidence except that then there's your intellectual obstacles that hinder your appreciation for thought outside the box.
What obstacles you ask?
Consider this verse, if you are able; "I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight."
Matthew 11:25,26
You see, this is where you get tripped up spiritually because it is beyond the pale for you to give cognitive assent to a concept promoted by the Son of God concerning the relationship between man and his maker.
It's in the Bible, so therefore it must be false. That's the intellectual obstacle that confines you to the mentality of circular reasoning.
You won't be satisfied unless I ascend into heaven and bring Jesus down and shove Him in your face. Even then there'd be no guarantee you'd accept that as evidence considering that fact that Jesus already appeared and His life and death gives more evidence of the validity of God's Word than any rational person can honestly ask for, but that didn't stop the hypocrites from beating Jesus half to death and murdering Him just the same.
And they knew Jesus was the messiah. They witnessed the evidence clearly.
But you think that 2000 years has separated you from the reality of the truth of God's Word.
Don't mistake God's patience as evidence for nothing.
Dude! You're running out of time!!
10 Oct 18
@divegeester saidMaybe someday, divegeester, you'll actually begin posting a sound defense of the truth of God's Word in these threads instead of the mimicry of naysayers you are prone to.
And there it goes folks....SecondSons pomposity is blasted out of the stadium and into no man's land
@secondson saidNo it does not. It would seem you do not actually understand what circular reasoning is.
No. Actually your question involves circular reasoning.
10 Oct 18
@secondson saidA lot of huff and puff from you about "intellectal obstacles" and such like but still no evidence that the ancient mythology that happens to appeal to your imagination is divinely inspired. Your certainty and sincerity are not evidence.
You have a limited grasp of things spiritual because you base evidence on what you can sense on a physical level, which does provide ample evidence except that then there's your intellectual obstacles that hinder your appreciation for thought outside the box.
What obstacles you ask?
Consider this verse, if you are able; "I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and ear ...[text shortened]... ord.
Don't mistake God's patience as evidence for nothing.
Dude! You're running out of time!!
10 Oct 18
@secondson saidWhat reason is there to believe this verse is divinely inspired?
Consider this verse, if you are able; "I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight."
Matthew 11:25,26
10 Oct 18
@secondson saidJesus wasn't "murdered", he was executed - by the legitimate government that Christians believe was put in place by the Christian God - for sedition.
that didn't stop the hypocrites from beating Jesus half to death and murdering Him just the same.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
The blind leading the blind is a sad sight.
Better begin to read the Holy Bible for yourself badradger. FMF is going to lead you astray into all kinds of lies.
They murdered, they killed the Son of God.
Acts 7:52
English Standard Version
Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who announced beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, whom you have now betrayed and murdered,
Berean Study Bible
Which of the prophets did your fathers fail to persecute? They even killed those who foretold the coming of the Righteous One. And now you are His betrayers and murderers—
Berean Literal Bible
Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those having foretold about the coming of the Righteous One, of whom you have now become betrayers and murderers,
New American Standard Bible
"Which one of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? They killed those who had previously announced the coming of the Righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers you have now become;
King James Bible
Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
Christian Standard Bible
Which of the prophets did your ancestors not persecute? They even killed those who foretold the coming of the Righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers you have now become.
Acts 3:15
English Standard Version
and you killed the Author of life, whom God raised from the dead. To this we are witnesses.
Berean Study Bible
You killed the Author of life, but God raised Him from the dead, and we are witnesses of the fact.
Berean Literal Bible
And you killed the Author of life, whom God has raised up out from the dead, whereof we are witnesses.
New American Standard Bible
but put to death the Prince of life, the one whom God raised from the dead, a fact to which we are witnesses.
King James Bible
And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Christian Standard Bible
You killed the source of life, whom God raised from the dead; we are witnesses of this.
Contemporary English Version
and you killed the one who leads people to life. But God raised him from death, and all of us can tell you what he has done.
@sonship saidJesus was executed by the Romans for sedition. He wasn't "murdered". You subscribe to Romans 13, don't you?
The blind leading the blind is a sad sight.
Better begin to read the Holy Bible for yourself badradger. FMF is going to lead you astray into all kinds of lies.
They murdered, they killed the Son of God.
10 Oct 18
@secondson saidThat’s a fair challenge I’ll admit.
Maybe someday, divegeester, you'll actually begin posting a sound defense of the truth of God's Word in these threads instead of the mimicry of naysayers you are prone to.
But it doesn’t deflect from my previous post about your pomposity been batted out of the park.
10 Oct 18
@ghost-of-a-duke saidSeveral problems here friend.
There are many such examples sir. Take for instance the Book of Mormon, which purports to being translated by the power of God and implying He had transcribed the words. - 'come forth by the gift and power of God unto the interpretation thereof."
I could also, if you like, reference the Vedas and some of the other scriptures of Hinduism, as well as Bahá'í scripture ...[text shortened]... ite clearly that it came from God. - Would that alone be evidence for you of its divine authorship?!
The quote, 'come forth by the gift and power of God unto the interpretation thereof' is not a direct quote from God. It is only a statement made by a human author, and if that author happens to be Joseph Smith, then it looses all credence considering he was nothing less than a maniac and probably schizophrenic in the extreme.
I'll skip over the Vedas, the scriptures of Hinduism and Bahá'í since there are no valid proofs based on prophetic utterances evidenced by actuall historical events to attest to their validity.
I'll go directly to your assertion of being able to produce a document of divine origin by simply claiming it came from God.
",..and indeed have this very book state quite clearly that it came from God. - Would that alone be evidence for you of its divine authorship?!"
You would indeed have to prove it. The Bible does just that, and to be honest you aught to know that.
"Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them."
Isaiah 42:9
I know that to you that verse seems obscure, but consider the implications if it is in fact a direct quote from God.
Give me a break sir. There are volumes of factual historical evidences in support of the biblical narrative, especially related to prophecy, that cannot be denied by legitimate and honest scholarly inquiry.
10 Oct 18
@secondson saidoh dear.. this thread has really brought our your ugly side.
I don't need evidence. I have something better.
You are convincing no one of your assertions while reminding us of why we thought you were dodgy in the first place.
Why keep posting like this?
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 28784
11 Oct 18
@secondson saidI think we have merely highlighted old chap that you gave an erroneous answer to my question. When I asked what was the evidence that the Bible was the word of God, you replied 'because the bible says so' when you really should have said 'because of the prophecies it contains that have come to pass.' (I, of course, would challenge both, but the second is at least a more compelling position).
Several problems here friend.
The quote, 'come forth by the gift and power of God unto the interpretation thereof' is not a direct quote from God. It is only a statement made by a human author, and if that author happens to be Joseph Smith, then it looses all credence considering he was nothing less than a maniac and probably schizophrenic in the extreme.
I'll skip ov ...[text shortened]... e, especially related to prophecy, that cannot be denied by legitimate and honest scholarly inquiry.
I'm also not impressed sir by the statement: - 'I'll skip over the Vedas, the scriptures of Hinduism and Bahá'í since there are no valid proofs based on prophetic utterances evidenced by actuall historical events to attest to their validity.'
On what basis do you make this statement? Have you studied the scriptures of Hinduism and Bahá'í to ascertain they are void of prophetic utterances evidenced by actual historical events to attest to their validity?! Please say you have.