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@eye-of-horus-42 saidIf you're going to come on a forum site and ask questions that you already think you know the answer to, then I would suggest that the closed mind in this instance belongs to you.
@Suzianne; No it doesn't,open your mind and think laterally not just what you been told to believe!
Do you think that if God exists, would he give people free will or not? He isn't looking for robots, who do as they're told, he wants people to believe in him because they have made the decision for themselves, and not because he's removed their doubt by removing their free will to believe or not. You cannot disbelieve something you've seen with your own eyes. Revealing himself removes the free will to make the choice to believe or not to believe. He revealed himself in the past only to people who already believed and were convinced he did exist. The choice was already made and the die was already cast, revealing himself made no difference in their belief. They had already exercised their free will to believe even with no proof.
@eye-of-horus-42 saidThe entire idea of religion fails without free will.
@mike69;Did god instructed you to make all those comments? if you can prove that he did I'll become a believer in god!
@Suzianne saidI would love to have a debate on free will someday, but this is not the thread for it. I would, however, point out that if a deity gives a creature free will and says “you may choose black or white, but if you choose black you’re going to hell forever and ever,” that is duress. A religion based on duress does not get my vote. Hinduism, for example, does not say that if you reject Hinduism, you’re going somewhere really awful. Buddhism also does not say that if you reject Buddhism, you’re going somewhere really awful.
The entire idea of religion fails without free will.
@eye-of-horus-42 saidOf course, that is why it is free will.
@Suzianne; You're right there,but free will have to applied on both sides of debates.
@moonbus saidBut, in the case of Christianity (indeed, all religion) you are presented with a clear 'good' and a clear 'evil'. You (okay, well, we) are told that to choose 'poorly', we lay ourselves open to retribution as a direct result of that choice. 'Evil' is a manifestation of 'selfishness', which we already understand to be a bad thing. We are shown the bad reaction to 'evil' choices throughout the OT. To choose evil is shown to be substandard, not only to us, but to all around us.
I would love to have a debate on free will someday, but this is not the thread for it. I would, however, point out that if a deity gives a creature free will and says “you may choose black or white, but if you choose black you’re going to hell forever and ever,” that is duress. A religion based on duress does not get my vote. Hinduism, for example, does not say that if you re ...[text shortened]... awful. Buddhism also does not say that if you reject Buddhism, you’re going somewhere really awful.
This is not the mechanism of free will that I am talking about. What I am talking about is the choice to believe or to not believe. This isn't as dire a choice as between good and evil, despite what modern-day evangelicals would have you believe. The choice between good and evil has dire consequences almost right away. In a societal sense, it is fairly immediately clear which way we should go, to strive towards good, always. The question of God is more open to going either way. There are many examples of people, and indeed, entire peoples, striving towards good without a 'guiding deity', or perhaps a non-communicative deity, such as buddism, naturism, and similar beliefs eschewing a father-like "god-figure". In no way would I describe this as inherently 'evil' or even 'bad'.
But, here, we started this particular thread with a direct question on why should 'God', apparently the Judeo-Christian God, hide himself from humans. My answer was, and is, "because free will".
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@eye-of-horus-42 saidThe first sentence came straight to me from God without any thought but it just appeared in my head. The school example with a relationship taking time to grow and develop I have heard long ago in a sermon, but is truth. In my opinion this is because of us in our fallen state, not because of him. The rest is my truth from my personal relationship and experiences. I don’t think we can handle seeing God in this life here now being the reason he doesn’t appear in the way you think he should for proof. The reason I feel this is from what I was explaining about sensing and feeling God around us. This situation only happened once in my life and I’ve never felt anything like it before or after. I was meditating at night around four years ago, praying looking into a light above me, after around 10 minutes later I walked to my window looked up and all I could see was like blinding light and I felt his presence along with my whole body trembling in fear and my legs shaking so bad I could barely stand. I prayed more, more so making promises with a very strong feeling that I had better be serious and given time to think about them. This was maybe 10 more minutes long and I felt shaken up after but not where I couldn’t stand from my body shaking and trembling so bad. Nothing has ever made me tremble or feel that way before and hasn’t happened since. You can think I’m crazy or not but I’m just sharing in pure honesty in hopes that you will make the effort to start slowly and take baby steps creating a relationship with God. I also pray That God will do something related in your life to start this journey and give you the proof you desire.
@mike69;Did god instructed you to make all those comments? if you can prove that he did I'll become a believer in god!
@Suzianne saidAll this talk about evil, sin, atonement, and punishment, is so very Jewish, if I may say so, without being racist; the whole commandment-ethic based on rules and laws, is also so very Jewish; making a covenant, a contract, a bargain, with God, is so very Jewish. One makes a deal with God, we pay obeisance and You protect us; that’s where Trump and Netanyahu get on like gangbusters. Christianity and then later Islam took this over, and added additional rules and regulations on top of that foundation. It all presupposes a moral evaluation of the world.
But, in the case of Christianity (indeed, all religion) you are presented with a clear 'good' and a clear 'evil'. You (okay, well, we) are told that to choose 'poorly', we lay ourselves open to retribution as a direct result of that choice. 'Evil' is a manifestation of 'selfishness', which we already understand to be a bad thing. We are shown the bad reaction to 'e ...[text shortened]... ntly the Judeo-Christian God, hide himself from humans. My answer was, and is, "because free will".
On a societal level, the world is currently witnessing where this mentality leads: it leads to Israel and Iran trading acts of vengeance, tit for tat violence. Meanwhile, Donald Trump thinks he can play God by imposing a solution on warring parties.
Buddhism has none of that. In Buddhism, there is no moral evaluation of the world. There is no such thing as evil. There is no such thing as sin. There is only ignorance of how suffering comes about, and a simple technique for breaking the causal chains which lead to suffering. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to violence. It’s all right there in Star Wars. But, you know that.
@mike69 ; Apparently you're so deep imers in your religion that you hypnotise yourself.Good luck with that.
@eye-of-horus-42 saidNo, I have been and am a sinner trying to get through life like everyone else. I haven’t been to church in six or seven years, just listen online. Your welcome to your opinion of me, it matters not my prayers are for you.
@mike69 ; Apparently you're so deep imers in your religion that you hypnotise yourself.Good luck with that.
@eye-of-horus-42 saidYou don’t engage; you insult. You were not looking for an answer; you just wanted to spout off.
@KellyJay; You're brainwashed to a point of no return,I got my answers,therefore no more posts. have a nice day!
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@moonbus saidBeing loving or evil are the reasons for hell; the top two commands are loving God and each other; whenever we choose not to do those, we sin. Keeping things in the proper perspective helps with the whole. Knowing that God loves each of us, to the point of suffering for us on the cross, makes each of us precious to God to the point that what we do to each other He counts as doing to Him.
I would love to have a debate on free will someday, but this is not the thread for it. I would, however, point out that if a deity gives a creature free will and says “you may choose black or white, but if you choose black you’re going to hell forever and ever,” that is duress. A religion based on duress does not get my vote. Hinduism, for example, does not say that if you re ...[text shortened]... awful. Buddhism also does not say that if you reject Buddhism, you’re going somewhere really awful.
That makes each individual one of the most sacred things on the planet. None of us is to be neglected or rejected; therefore, we don’t get to pick and choose who we love - we are called to love our enemies. One of the most important things is that we will all own our choices. Since we have all made bad choices, God makes a way; we choose to accept that or not. That choice is the most important one: to be saved from our guilt or not. It isn’t a matter of believing in or going to hell; we are all already on our way to hell. The question is whether to believe in God’s saving faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, or not.
@eye-of-horus-42 saidHave you considered that God doesn't want you to see Him with your eyes, but instead through faith?
Can any one believers in god can answer a simple question?,'WHY GOD DOESN'T SHOW HIMSELF TO HUMANITY'.after all aren't we his creation?.A father doesn't hides from his childrens!
@eye-of-horus-42 saidThis sermon is about someone that literally sounds like it’s talking and came from you.
@mike69;Did god instructed you to make all those comments? if you can prove that he did I'll become a believer in god!
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