Originally posted by FetchmyjunkI have already answered you on this issue. If someone disagrees with me about what I believe is right, then we disagree. So what? I don't think homosexuality is immoral, and I think that is the correct moral stance to take on homosexuality, whereas you believe I am not correct about this. So what? I take full responsibility for my moral decisions and behaviour. You may think that my moral decisions are wrong, but so what?
I know what you claim to be your moral sensibilities. I am asking you how you know that these 'sources of your moral sensibilities' are correct? And why someone who subscribes to different ones are wrong? Or do you not believe that yours are right and someone else's are wrong?
Originally posted by josephwYou seem to be claiming that I am "incapable of knowing the difference between right and wrong".
All your rationale is based upon the premise that an absolute standard of morality isn't objective, thereby rendering you an automaton subject to whatever environment you happen to be in, and incapable of knowing the difference between right and wrong.
Originally posted by FMFThis is the exact attitude you should have if you believe everyone opinion on morality is equally valid.
I have already answered you on this issue. If someone disagrees with me about what I believe is right, then we disagree. So what? I don't think homosexuality is immoral, and I think that is the correct moral stance to take on homosexuality, whereas you believe I am not correct about this. So what? I take full responsibility for my moral decisions and behaviour. You may think that my moral decisions are wrong, but so what?
Originally posted by FMFHow would you know the difference if you don't even believe that an objective standard for right and wrong exists and therefore a clear distinction between the two? All you have then is a bunch of grey areas where everyone's opinion is equally valid.
You seem to be claiming that I am "incapable of knowing the difference between right and wrong".
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkBut I have already explained that I don't think everyone's opinion on morality is equally valid. Morality enables us to try to figure out what is the right thing to do and what is the wrong thing to do. If, having used my moral sensibilities to figure that out in a given situation, why on earth would I believe that the behaviour of someone who was doing something morally wrong was "equally valid"? Good grief. It's as if you are just not reading any of my posts.
This is the exact attitude you should have if you believe everyone opinion on morality is equally valid.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkI have already explained what the sources of my moral sensibilities are and how I feel able to arrive at varying degrees of certainty about what I believe is the right thing for me - or any person - to do. If you need ancient Hebrew mythology to help you arrive at a moral condemnation of the Holocaust, then so be it. It strikes me as more than a little odd, but so be it. Maybe you feel that you need Christian texts to make your humanity complete and for it to function? Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.
If no objective standard does exist you can't say with certainty that Hitler's morality was incorrect.
FMF to josephw: You seem to be claiming that I am "incapable of knowing the difference between right and wrong".If you agree with josephw that I am "incapable of knowing the difference between right and wrong", why not just say so.
Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
How would you know the difference if you don't even believe that an objective standard for right and wrong exists and therefore a clear distinction between the two?
All you have then is a bunch of grey areas where everyone's opinion is equally valid.
No I haven't.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkI might agree with you, but where do we find this objective standard? The answer cannot be the Bible!!
If no objective standard does exist you can't say with certainty that Hitler's morality was incorrect. That is the final nail in the coffin of the moral relativist.
Because Hitler, and others throughout history have used 'their' interpretation of scripture to support their beliefs.
The simple fact that Bible interpretation is not universally agreed upon, opens the door for people to use it against others.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkGive me some scenarios. "A bunch of grey areas"? What are you talking about? I think I've been pretty candid and specific. You've said you would try to avoid lying "if possible" and you've said whether or not to kill someone would "depend on the situation". I agree with these. We both condemn rape and the sexual abuse of children. In so far as you say there are "grey areas" that I have that are different from yours, what are they?
All you have then is a bunch of grey areas where everyone's opinion is equally valid.
Originally posted by FMFI despise everything about Hitler and the Nazis.
Do you have any cognitive, spiritual, or moral difficulty condemning his attempt to exterminate all the European Jews? I don't.
But, the reason for this thread is because of 'the way' in which a lot of Jews died. It's not so much the shooting death of a new arrival at a concentration camp, which is tragic, but it's the prolonged period of time involving abuse, torture, starvation, sickness, humiliation, and skeleton figure that died, and was dumped in a pit.
God had to witness these people suffer for years. And that is disturbing to me.
Something seems flawed when God looks the other way, to honor Hitler's free will.
Originally posted by chaney3I acknowledge that this thread has well and truly drifted away from your intended topic. These things happen.
I despise everything about Hitler and the Nazis.
But, the reason for this thread is because of 'the way' in which a lot of Jews died. It's not so much the shooting death of a new arrival at a concentration camp, which is tragic, but it's the prolonged period of time involving abuse, torture, starvation, sickness, humiliation, and skeleton figure that died ...[text shortened]... bing to me.
Something seems flawed when God looks the other way, to honor Hitler's free will.