"How can a God of love send anybody to Hell?"
"One of the classic problems that people bring up is: How can a God of love send anybody to Hell? Well, there are several answers to that. One of course is that God doesn't send anyone to Hell. You send yourself there. God has done everything He possibly can to keep you out of Hell and still leave you as a person with free will and not just a robot. That's the way He made us--after His image, after His likeness, the power to say “yes” or the power to say “no,” the power to reject our own Creator, and of course to take the consequences.
In one sense you can say He doesn't send anybody to Hell, because across the road to Hell he has placed the cross of Christ. There are also the prayers of parents, pastors and Sunday school teachers, and all the other things that God brings into our lives to stop us on our selfish way and to bring us to the Savior. We have to go wandering on past it all and put ourselves in Hell. Sometimes you hear people say, "God wouldn't send His children to Hell." God certainly doesn't send His children to Hell because when we're His children we're in the family of God. We're born again and part of our salvation includes deliverance from judgment. We're not all children of God except through faith in Christ Jesus.
Can a God of love send anyone to Hell? You might as well ask some other question to make just as much sense. Does God allow disease in the world? Does God allow jails and prisons for some people? Does God allow the electric chair sometimes? Does God allow sin to break homes and hearts? Does God allow war? All of these things are the consequences of sin entering into the world, and in some cases the direct result of man's rebellion, and the result of greed and pride and egotism and hunger for power that doesn't have any use for people--only the desire to get ahead.
This is the incredible fruit of sin. Sin brings suffering into the world. There's no way of getting around it. And the greatest sin in the world is to reject the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior. We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder; and we have them all cataloged and classified--but there isn't one of them (or even put them all together in one big hunk) that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life. Did Jesus say, "I'm going to send the Holy Spirit to convict the world of sin because they rob banks"-- or, "because they believe not on me"?
It is folly to expect that you or I can trifle with the Lord Jesus and not have a penalty attached to it. What ridiculous thinking people have in this area! We expect penalties for doing much less. Life is just built that way. You jump off a high building, the law of gravity will take care of you. You might say, “God is love,” all the way down, but you're still going to get splattered when you hit the bottom! You break the law of gravity, and it breaks you! You may love your little child, but if he puts his finger up on that hot burner on the gas stove or the electric stove, he's going to get burned!
Fire burns. Gravity kills. Water drowns. And you can say, "God is love, God is love, God is love," until you're blue in the face. But water will still drown you, fire will burn you, and gravity will kill you, and sin will damn you no matter how much you say about a loving God. God just set up life that way. He set up the rules. He set up the laws by which we are to live. And if we break those laws, they break us, and we pay the consequences." -Author: Dr. Bruce W. Dunn of Grace Communications
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-grace/hell-and-god.html
Dr. Bruce W. Dunn cuts through the fog with this direct, no-nonsense answer to a perennial question. Your thoughts?
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyDo you have any evidence that "hell" exists other than the claims made in your religious literature?
[b]"How can a God of love send anybody to Hell?"
"One of the classic problems that people bring up is: How can a God of love send anybody to Hell? Well, there are several answers to that. One of course is that God doesn't send anyone to Hell. You send yourself there. God has done everything He possibly can to keep you out of Hell and still leave ...[text shortened]... uts through the fog with this direct, no-nonsense answer to a perennial question. Your thoughts?[/b]
Originally posted by FMFWelcome back, FMF. Perhaps this biblical perspective will shed some light: Thread 157295
Do you have any evidence that "hell" exists other than the claims made in your religious literature?
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI am asking you if you have any evidence that "hell" exists other than the claims according to the "biblical perspective" you happen to subscribe to?
Welcome back, FMF. Perhaps this biblical perspective will shed some light: Thread 157295
Originally posted by PudgenikI am asking for any evidence that "hell" exists other than what is in the religious literature. Surely (let's say) 200,000 years of human existence would have generated some evidence other than a few unsubstantiated claims in a book.
It is in the religious literature.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI don't see much of an answer in there at all. The best he comes up with is: 'Life is just built that way'. Hardly an answer. At no point does he explain the contradiction of a God of love sending people to hell, instead he is essentially saying: God sends people to hell, get used to it!
Dr. Bruce W. Dunn cuts through the fog with this direct, no-nonsense answer to a perennial question. Your thoughts?
So, since Dr. Bruce W. Dunn can't seem to answer the question, can you Grampy have a go?
Start here: What is the purpose of punishment? (in human society, and in the case of hell)
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyOf course what you and all the fire and brimstone preachers always seem to deliberately avoid discussing is the blatantly obvious differentiation between instant annihilation in a fire (or whatever other source) and burning in utter agony, not for a while but for all ETERNITY.
"One of the classic problems that people bring up is: How can a God of love send anybody to Hell? Well, there are several answers to that. One of course is that God doesn't send anyone to Hell. You send yourself there...
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyThis is always the pathetic, standard text book reply. It is disgusting. The writer probably never heard of the parable of the Good Shepherd, who left the 99 to fetch the lost lamb. According to him, the shepherd would say: "It is the sheep's OWN FAULT, due to his FREE WILL, that he went astray. Let him reap the consequences of his actions!"
. One of course is that God doesn't send anyone to Hell. You send yourself there.
The following section appeared recently in Richard Rohr's daily meditation:
Jesus teaches about the God he knows. Many of the citations he uses are from extra-biblical sources, aphorisms, legends, and stories. He takes wisdom from wherever it comes. When he does quote scripture, the only Hebrew Scriptures that he quotes are those that move toward mercy and justice and inclusivity. There are scriptures that present God as punitive, imperialistic, or exclusionary, but Jesus never quotes them in his teaching. In fact, he speaks against them.
The longest single citation of Jesus according to the Gospels is in Luke 4. He went into the synagogue and unrolled the scroll of the prophet Isaiah and “found the place where it was written, ‘The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.’ And he closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant, and sat down” (Luke 4:17-20). Wait a minute! Jesus stopped reading before he finished the text! Isaiah 61:2 actually says: “to proclaim a day of vengeance from our God.” Jesus skips the last line because he isn’t here to announce vengeance. He has a completely different message, and thus critiques his own scriptures. This is quite telling.
Jesus creates stories to communicate that God is good, faithful, and merciful (i.e. the Good Samaritan, the Prodigal Son, and the Publican and the Pharisee). Jesus exemplifies biblical faith, which is not trust in ideas; it’s trust in a person—God, his Father, whom he trusts so much he calls him Abba, Daddy, Papa. Jesus knows that God is always with him and in a caring way.
Jesus was not changing the Father’s mind about us; he was changing our mind about God—and thus about one another. If God and Jesus are not hateful, violent, punitive, torturing, or vindictive, then our excuse for the same is forever taken away from us. Maybe we do not really want such a God?
Exactly. People like the Fundamentalist Clique on this forum take pleasure in threatening their opponents with this Final Punishment. They do not WANT a loving and forgiving God!
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Originally posted by Grampy BobbyGod paid a steep price by sending his son to die for the ungodly. The suffering and rejection Jesus endured is beyond my comprehension.
[b]"How can a God of love send anybody to Hell?"
"One of the classic problems that people bring up is: How can a God of love send anybody to Hell? Well, there are several answers to that. One of course is that God doesn't send anyone to Hell. You send yourself there. God has done everything He possibly can to keep you out of Hell and still leave ...[text shortened]... uts through the fog with this direct, no-nonsense answer to a perennial question. Your thoughts?[/b]
Having said that, anyone who rejects his free gift of salvation...
There is no hell deep enough, it cannot burn long enough to pay for rejecting Jesus....but God is kinder and more merciful than I am, and he will not torment them forever, they will just burn up and cease to exist.
So, I agree with you, man sends himself there.
Originally posted by FMFProve that there has been 200,000 years of human existence.
I am asking for any evidence that "hell" exists [b]other than what is in the religious literature. Surely (let's say) 200,000 years of human existence would have generated some evidence other than a few unsubstantiated claims in a book.[/b]
Originally posted by checkbaiterA "steep price" for an omnipotent God figure? But Jesus is supposed to have come back to life and presumably knew all along that this was what was going to happen. If the "suffering and rejection Jesus endured" is beyond your comprehension, surely just about anyone's suffering and rejection would be beyond your comprehension too.
God paid a steep price by sending his son to die for the ungodly. The suffering and rejection Jesus endured is beyond my comprehension.
