1. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    02 Aug '15 14:56
    "How can a God of love send anybody to Hell?" / 2015 (21 Jul '14 22:46) Thread 160245 [34 pages]

    "One of the classic problems that people bring up is: How can a God of love send anybody to Hell? Well, there are several answers to that. One of course is that God doesn't send anyone to Hell. You send yourself there. God has done everything He possibly can to keep you out of Hell and still leave you as a person with free will and not just a robot. That's the way He made us--after His image, after His likeness, the power to say “yes” or the power to say “no,” the power to reject our own Creator, and of course to take the consequences.

    In one sense you can say He doesn't send anybody to Hell, because across the road to Hell he has placed the cross of Christ. There are also the prayers of parents, pastors and Sunday school teachers, and all the other things that God brings into our lives to stop us on our selfish way and to bring us to the Savior. We have to go wandering on past it all and put ourselves in Hell. Sometimes you hear people say, "God wouldn't send His children to Hell." God certainly doesn't send His children to Hell because when we're His children we're in the family of God. We're born again and part of our salvation includes deliverance from judgment. We're not all children of God except through faith in Christ Jesus.

    Can a God of love send anyone to Hell? You might as well ask some other question to make just as much sense. Does God allow disease in the world? Does God allow jails and prisons for some people? Does God allow the electric chair sometimes? Does God allow sin to break homes and hearts? Does God allow war? All of these things are the consequences of sin entering into the world, and in some cases the direct result of man's rebellion, and the result of greed and pride and egotism and hunger for power that doesn't have any use for people--only the desire to get ahead.

    This is the incredible fruit of sin. Sin brings suffering into the world. There's no way of getting around it. And the greatest sin in the world is to reject the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior. We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder; and we have them all cataloged and classified--but there isn't one of them (or even put them all together in one big hunk) that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life. Did Jesus say, "I'm going to send the Holy Spirit to convict the world of sin because they rob banks"-- or, "because they believe not on me"?

    It is folly to expect that you or I can trifle with the Lord Jesus and not have a penalty attached to it. What ridiculous thinking people have in this area! We expect penalties for doing much less. Life is just built that way. You jump off a high building, the law of gravity will take care of you. You might say, “God is love,” all the way down, but you're still going to get splattered when you hit the bottom! You break the law of gravity, and it breaks you! You may love your little child, but if he puts his finger up on that hot burner on the gas stove or the electric stove, he's going to get burned!

    Fire burns. Gravity kills. Water drowns. And you can say, "God is love, God is love, God is love," until you're blue in the face. But water will still drown you, fire will burn you, and gravity will kill you, and sin will damn you no matter how much you say about a loving God. God just set up life that way. He set up the rules. He set up the laws by which we are to live. And if we break those laws, they break us, and we pay the consequences." -Author: Dr. Bruce W. Dunn of Grace Communications http://www.christiananswers.net/q-grace/hell-and-god.html
    _____________________________

    Dr. Bruce W. Dunn cuts through the fog with this direct, no-nonsense answer to a perennial question. Your thoughts?"
  2. Standard memberRemoved
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    02 Aug '15 15:10
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]"How can a God of love send anybody to Hell?" / 2015 (21 Jul '14 22:46) Thread 160245 [34 pages]

    "One of the classic problems that people bring up is: How can a God of love send anybody to Hell? Well, there are several answers to that. One of course is that God doesn't send anyone to Hell. You send yourself there. God has done ev ...[text shortened]... ts through the fog with this direct, no-nonsense answer to a perennial question. Your thoughts?"[/b]
    I agree....I would like to add to your post with this...

    "Is it true that an earthquake is an “act of God”?

    Only if you are a lawyer or an insurance agent. Why? Because it is specifically in those venues that one hears of such tragic events being attributed to God. No doubt someone is trying to figure out how to sue Him also. When that terminology was adopted, and who first decided to use it, I do not know, but it is terribly erroneous, because God is love, and love does no harm to people or to their possessions.

    According to the Bible, wherein God speaks for Himself, earthquakes are acts of the Devil, God’s archenemy, and a fallen world. Ditto for hurricanes, tornadoes, cyclones, floods (For an explanation of the Flood in Noah’s time, click here.), famines (from not enough rain), and all other destructive “natural” events. This is in keeping with Jesus’ statement in John 10:10 that Satan’s goals relative to mankind are to “steal, kill, and destroy.” Is that what earthquakes do? Yes—just ask the residents of Haiti and other counties that have been hit hard by an earthquake.

    Are there any biblical records of destructive “natural” disasters happening to good people or innocent bystanders? Good question, and it is answered by incidents in the Gospels such as Luke 8:22 and following, where Jesus and his disciples were on a boat crossing the Sea of Galilee. He fell asleep en route, and a huge storm arose that threatened to sink them.

    Now, if that storm was an “act of God,” Jesus was not a very good Son, because instead of going along with the program and drowning, he rebuked the wind and the waves and stilled them, thus messing up what His Father was trying to do. But why would his own Father try to kill him on the lake, when his death on the Cross was the only hope for mankind?

    And what about the record in Acts 27, when a terrible storm raged for days and days and threatened to kill the Apostle Paul, one of the key figures in the early Church and the man who at that time was still to pen those magnificent Church Epistles that he later wrote in a Roman prison? What happened in that situation? God sent an angel to tell Paul that he and all those on board would safely make it to land. If God sent the storm, why would He then save the people from it?

    God is all good. He is light (1 John 1:5), He is love (1 John 4:8), and He wants only blessings for all people. Not only is He not the cause of earthquakes, etc., He is always doing His best to stop them from hurting people. For further study, please listen to our free online audio teaching, Is God in Control of Everything that Happens?

    http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/is-it-true-that-an-earthquake-is-an-act-of-god
  3. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    02 Aug '15 15:252 edits
    Spirituality: "Debate and general discussion of the supernatural, religion, and the life after." / My own initial thought is one of appreciation that Russ included "the after life" as the final suggested topic for this spirituality forum. The absolute finality of temporal life on earth is as much an acid reality for each of us as it was for our family members and close friends who have already departed this life bound for eternity.
  4. Standard memberRajk999
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    02 Aug '15 16:03
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]"How can a God of love send anybody to Hell?" / 2015 (21 Jul '14 22:46) Thread 160245 [34 pages]

    "One of the classic problems that people bring up is: How can a God of love send anybody to Hell? Well, there are several answers to that. One of course is that God doesn't send anyone to Hell. You send yourself there. God has done ev ...[text shortened]... ts through the fog with this direct, no-nonsense answer to a perennial question. Your thoughts?"[/b]
    You continue to ignore the issue of those who have never heard of Christ.
  5. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    02 Aug '15 16:04
    Originally posted by checkbaiter

    "Is it true that an earthquake is an “act of God”?

    According to the Bible, wherein God speaks for Himself, earthquakes are acts of the Devil, God’s archenemy, and a fallen world. Ditto for hurricanes, tornadoes, cyclones, floods (For an explanation of the Flood in Noah’s time, click here.), famines (from not enough rain), and all other destructive “nat ...[text shortened]... do? Yes—just ask the residents of Haiti and other counties that have been hit hard by an earthquake.
    Okay, but can you remind me again why an all powerful, all loving God would allow the devil to do that?

    Thanks.
  6. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    02 Aug '15 16:223 edits
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    You continue to ignore the issue of those who have never heard of Christ.
    Rajk999, as an apparent skeptic, the basic absolute fact you must come to terms with is God's Divine Attribute of Justice: which means He's fair. Second is His Divine Attribute of Immutability: He does not and cannot change. (to be continued)
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    02 Aug '15 16:38
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    Okay, but can you remind me again why an all powerful, all loving God would allow the devil to do that?

    Thanks.
    A good question which I pondered for many years.
    Since god wants His creation to love him willingly, he had to give people free will.
    To have a genuine relationship of love, he needed to give people the option to reject him.

    So, I asked myself the same thing, why would he have to create an angelic being who would rebel and cause so much devastation?
    Think of it, murder, rape, destruction, hate, racism, and so much heart ache, depression, I think you get the point.

    The answer I learned was that he counted the cost, even the cost of suffering and crucifixion of his son to redeem mankind and he decided it was worth it.
    His return is countless amounts of people who turned to him, loved him so that he could share his love and joy for all eternity. All by their freedom to choose.
    Deut 30:19
    I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
    KJV
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    02 Aug '15 17:00
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    A good question which I pondered for many years.
    Since god wants His creation to love him willingly, he had to give people free will.
    To have a genuine relationship of love, he needed to give people the option to reject him.

    So, I asked myself the same thing, why would he have to create an angelic being who would rebel and cause so much devastation? ...[text shortened]... lessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
    KJV
    [/quote]
    I always hear about this 'freedom to choose ' business. Funny thing how that applies to those who choose not to believe in God or Christ. It seems not to apply to those who were once Christian and thereafter choose to become atheist or some other doctrine. I know of Christians who have become Muslims, Hindus or even criminals , etc. Why do they lose the freedom to choose.
  9. Standard memberRemoved
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    02 Aug '15 18:05
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I always hear about this 'freedom to choose ' business. Funny thing how that applies to those who choose not to believe in God or Christ. It seems not to apply to those who were once Christian and thereafter choose to become atheist or some other doctrine. I know of Christians who have become Muslims, Hindus or even criminals , etc. Why do they lose the freedom to choose.
    That is a choice, is it not?
  10. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    02 Aug '15 18:071 edit
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    A good question which I pondered for many years.
    Since god wants His creation to love him willingly, he had to give people free will.
    To have a genuine relationship of love, he needed to give people the option to reject him.

    So, I asked myself the same thing, why would he have to create an angelic being who would rebel and cause so much devastation? ...[text shortened]... lessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
    KJV
    [/quote]
    I appreciate your answer (even if it wasn't the 'friendly' month of August) but my wait for understanding on this issue continues. The 'freewill' argument may have wings when it comes to 'evil acts' caused by man, but i don't think it can be stretched to account for 'evil acts' out of mans control.

    For a number of years i worked in terminal care and saw first hand the suffering caused by disease; a suffering no respecter of justice or innocence. If God did indeed count the cost of giving the devil freewill, then i humbly request a recount.
  11. Standard memberRemoved
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    02 Aug '15 18:13
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    I appreciate your answer (even if it wasn't the 'friendly' month of August) but my wait for understanding on this issue continues. The 'freewill' argument may have wings when it comes to 'evil acts' caused by man, but i don't think it can be stretched to account for 'evil acts' out of mans control.

    For a number of years i worked in terminal care ...[text shortened]... If God did indeed count the cost of giving the devil freewill, then i humbly request a recount.
    I hate disease, suffering and evil just as much as anyone.
    The choice is still there. God brings healing, peace and much more to those who choose him and believe.
    There is more to it than just choosing, it requires giving him all your will too.
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    02 Aug '15 18:16
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    God has done everything He possibly can to keep you out of Hell and still leave you as a person with free will and not just a robot.
    Given common descriptions of hell, I would rather be a robot than to end up there.
    But more important for this thread, if what will cause me to send myself to hell, is the fact that I do not believe in God, then that was never up to my 'free will' anyway. My lack of belief in a god is robotic in nature in that I cannot believe otherwise.
    In addition, the whole system that causes those that lack belief in God to send themselves to hell seem somewhat unjust - and certainly unloving to me.
  13. Standard memberRajk999
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    02 Aug '15 20:10
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    That is a choice, is it not?
    NO!! You have said it yourself that you cannot change your status once you are saved.
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    02 Aug '15 20:231 edit
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]"How can a God of love send anybody to Hell?" / 2015 (21 Jul '14 22:46) Thread 160245 [34 pages]

    "One of the classic problems that people bring up is: How can a God of love send anybody to Hell? Well, there are several answers to that. One of course is that God doesn't send anyone to Hell. You send yourself there. God has done ev ...[text shortened]... ts through the fog with this direct, no-nonsense answer to a perennial question. Your thoughts?"[/b]
    (Before clicking on it) I bet myself $1,000,000 that the link at the top of your OP would be to one of your own threads.

    And guess what...
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    02 Aug '15 20:27
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    NO!! You have said it yourself that you cannot change your status once you are saved.
    Not quite, a Christian as I understand it can "renounce" his Christianity. Not sure how, but I have heard they have that choice.
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