"How can a God of love send anybody to Hell?"

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
You "cannot" or will not? All members of the human race have both positive and negative volition. Did Russ or anyone else force you to join Red Hot Pawn? Did I force you to post to this thread? Whether you accept or reject God's free gift of salvation and eternal life is entirely up to you.

Do you believe that someone can somehow decide to believe something that they simply do not believe (i.e. they do not find it credible)?

Originally posted by bob58
Let's assume that an individual does make a mistake and reject Christ (I am a believer). It is still a mistake and people make lots of them. To punish them forever in ways too horrible to contemplate for a mistake. Even imperfect humans set a time limit for most crimes. There must be more to the story.

Originally posted by bob58
"There must be more to the story."

Yes, there is so let's not "assume" anything; rather, please stay tuned with an open mind....

Originally posted by FMF
Do you believe that someone can somehow decide to believe something that they simply do not believe?

I believe thinking and saying "no" repeatedly day after day after day after day succeeds in making it increasingly difficult to think and say "yes".

Originally posted by divegeester
You should take these doubts to your pastor and seek guidance from him rather than challenge Grampy Bobby.

(In case you've missed the context, please don't take my post at face value)

Still fixated on other people rather than focused on the thread's topic?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
I believe thinking and saying "no" repeatedly day after day after day after day succeeds in making it increasingly difficult to think and say "yes".

You have 'answered' a question other than the one that I asked. I have asked it before and I know full well why you dodge it every single time. However, your refusal to address it undermines your propagation of your ideology, so I offer you once again the opportunity to have a go: Do you believe that someone can somehow decide to believe something that they simply do not believe?

I believe that ultimately everyone must decide for them selves. My Pastor is only going to give me his opinion on the subject and doesn't know what is true for sure any more than I or Grampa Bobby does.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Still fixated on other people rather than focused on the thread's topic?

Your online persona as the self-anointed RHP poster who only speaks the truth about Christ as written in the Bible and who cannot be wrong, is a far far more interesting topic than your platitudinous and self-promoting threads.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
You "cannot" or will not?

I cannot.

Whether you accept or reject God's free gift of salvation and eternal life is entirely up to you.
I cannot accept or reject something that doesn't exist.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I cannot answer that question. Let me know if you find an answer, I just don't know.
What I have learned over the years is that once that 'seed" is created in a person, it is there to stay. The "seed" is incorruptible. I have heard some Pastors say that a person can renounce Jesus Christ and lose their salvation, but I do not understand how it would be possible. Nor do I understand why anyone would want to.

The answer is very simple. Freewill is always an option. Those who do not accept God do so by exercising their right to choose. Those who leave Christianity do so also because they have the right to choose. Those born again Christians that live an evil sinful life do so because they have the right to choose. Satan and his many followers left the domain of the heavens and rebelled against God did so because they have the right to choose. Judas Iscariot betrayed Christ because he had the right to choose.

Your notion that freewill changes once you are 'born again' etc, is unbiblical. God does not take away freewill. You, GB and others need to rexamine what you believe because it is not in the Bible.

Here is what the Bible says about how God deals with unrighteousness. It makes absolutely no difference .. angels, Christians who accept Christ etc etc, everybody .. all will receive their reward for their deeds, because the all have the will, free will to act according to their own desires.

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds😉

The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: ..
.
. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. (2Pe 2:4-21)

Originally posted by Rajk999
The answer is very simple. Freewill is always an option. Those who do not accept God do so by exercising their right to choose. Those who leave Christianity do so also because they have the right to choose. Those born again Christians that live an evil sinful life do so because they have the right to choose. Satan and his many followers left the domain of t ...[text shortened]... y freewill. You, GB and others need to rexamine what you believe because it is not in the Bible.

Your notion that freewill changes once you are 'born again' etc, is unbiblical. God does not take away freewill. You, GB and others need to rexamine what you believe because it is not in the Bible.

I never said such a thing and I don't believe anyone else here did either. Free choice is always free choice regardless if you are born again or not.
The only one who controls the will other than the person is Satan if given the opportunity.

Originally posted by Rajk999
The answer is very simple. Freewill is always an option. Those who do not accept God do so by exercising their right to choose. Those who leave Christianity do so also because they have the right to choose. Those born again Christians that live an evil sinful life do so because they have the right to choose. Satan and his many followers left the domain of t ...[text shortened]... y freewill. You, GB and others need to rexamine what you believe because it is not in the Bible.

What you believe is not biblical either, but I can understand why you have come to believe it. You are making an assumption that because someone cannot lose their salvation, that there are no consequences. Furthermore your construct is not workable in real life - e.g. which sins cause someone to lose salvation? It is impossible to know, therefore impossible to teach and it is not born out by Biblical history.

Examples:
Moses - a murderer after he was called of God and disobedient to the point where striking the rock twice cost him his mortal life. Would you say he was not in heaven?
David - shocking behavioral flaws. Adultery, conspiracy to commit murder. And yet he was a man after God's own heart.
Both of they men suffered severe consequences for their behaviour but not loss of salvation. Your construct does not bear close scrutiny.

Originally posted by FMF
You have 'answered' a question other than the one that I asked. I have asked it before and I know full well why you dodge it every single time. However, your refusal to address it undermines your propagation of your ideology, so I offer you once again the opportunity to have a go: [b]Do you believe that someone can somehow decide to believe something that they simply do not believe?[/b]

That is a good question. I don't think some one just decides to believe. It isn't like a switch.
I needed a lot of information to first make sense of the bible. Then after reading and thinking about it, my unbelief turned to a small faith.
Then as I continued my study, including prayer, my faith continued to grow.
The spirit in a believer has all the faith it needs. The trick is getting it from there to the mind and heart. That's when things begin to happen.

But to answer your question, I would say no.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
That is a good question. I don't think some one just decides to believe. It isn't like a switch.
I needed a lot of information to first make sense of the bible. Then after reading and thinking about it, my unbelief turned to a small faith.
Then as I continued my study, including prayer, my faith continued to grow.
The spirit in a believer has all the ...[text shortened]... d and heart. That's when things begin to happen.

But to answer your question, I would say no.

It is as FMF says, impossible to choose to believe; a person is given a measure of faith in order that day can believe. This moment will be passing and may return. Scripture bears this out:

"...God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."

Romans 12:3

Originally posted by divegeester
What you believe is not biblical either, but I can understand why you have come to believe it. You are making an assumption that because someone cannot lose their salvation, that there are no consequences. Furthermore your construct is not workable in real life - e.g. which sins cause someone to lose salvation? It is impossible to know, therefore impos ...[text shortened]... ces for their behaviour but not loss of salvation. Your construct does not bear close scrutiny.

Lets see .. you said:

You are making an assumption that because someone cannot lose their salvation, that there are no consequences. Furthermore your construct is not workable in real life - e.g. which sins cause someone to lose salvation? It is impossible to know, therefore impossible to teach and it is not born out by Biblical history.

1. Anyone can lose their salvation - the Bible is full of examples .. Satan and his angels defied God and were cast out of his abode with God. Judas Iscariot .. and many others
2. If you assume that someone cannot lose their salvation then what are the consequences of sining beyond what God is prepared to forgive - please provide references.
3. The fact that the Bible does not specify which sins is not a licence to discard the parts of the Bible that speaks of the dire consequences of sin .. including a fate worse than what awaited them before they accepted Christ.
4. Placing everyone in Christianity - the billions or so on par with Moses or David is just plain infantile. I have heard many a foolish Christian say that David committed adultery and murder therefore he is better off. What the prophets and patriachs of old did and endured for God and his work places them in a far superior position. God overlooks the sins of many but that depends on the person. To claim that God overlooks all the sins of all Christians for all their lives is a nice delusion to believe but it is not in the Bible.