1. Joined
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    02 Aug '15 20:28
    Let's assume that an individual does make a mistake and reject Christ (I am a believer). It is still a mistake and people make lots of them. To punish them forever in ways too horrible to contemplate for a mistake. Even imperfect humans set a time limit for most crimes. There must be more to the story.
  2. R
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    02 Aug '15 20:39
    Originally posted by bob58
    Let's assume that an individual does make a mistake and reject Christ (I am a believer). It is still a mistake and people make lots of them. To punish them forever in ways too horrible to contemplate for a mistake. Even imperfect humans set a time limit for most crimes. There must be more to the story.
    I agree....
    This is worth a listen... "The fire that consumes", by Edward Fudge...

    https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIQglblVVQ4AnTksnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByZWc0dGJtBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMQ--?p=The+Fire+That+Consumes+Edward+Fudge&vid=f6cc0071d6d1a27d0c8f1a993a92aba6&turl=http%3A%2F%2Ftse4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DWN.smGLi2%252fmsc0Fj%252bzt0KXXuQ%26pid%3D15.1%26h%3D150%26w%3D300%26c%3D7%26rs%3D1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.[WORD TOO LONG]
  3. PenTesting
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    02 Aug '15 21:22
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    I agree....
    This is worth a listen... "The fire that consumes", by Edward Fudge...

    https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIQglblVVQ4AnTksnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByZWc0dGJtBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMQ--?p=The+Fire+That+Consumes+Edward+Fudge&vid=f6cc0071d6d1a27d0c8f1a993a92aba6&turl=http%3A%2F%2Ftse4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DWN.smGLi2%252 ...[text shortened]... 26pid%3D15.1%26h%3D150%26w%3D300%26c%3D7%26rs%3D1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.[WORD TOO LONG]
    He did not deal with the issue. Basically the contention is that God allows freewill, except when you are saved and you want to change your mind about being saved .. then apparently you cannot. There seem to be examples in the Bible of people changing their mind.
  4. Joined
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    02 Aug '15 22:371 edit
    Originally posted by bob58
    Let's assume that an individual does make a mistake and reject Christ (I am a believer). It is still a mistake and people make lots of them. To punish them forever in ways too horrible to contemplate for a mistake. Even imperfect humans set a time limit for most crimes. There must be more to the story.
    You should take these doubts to your pastor and seek guidance from him rather than challenge Grampy Bobby.

    (In case you've missed the context, please don't take my post at face value)
  5. R
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    03 Aug '15 01:10
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    He did not deal with the issue. Basically the contention is that God allows freewill, except when you are saved and you want to change your mind about being saved .. then apparently you cannot. There seem to be examples in the Bible of people changing their mind.
    I cannot answer that question. Let me know if you find an answer, I just don't know.
    What I have learned over the years is that once that 'seed" is created in a person, it is there to stay. The "seed" is incorruptible. I have heard some Pastors say that a person can renounce Jesus Christ and lose their salvation, but I do not understand how it would be possible. Nor do I understand why anyone would want to.
  6. Account suspended
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    03 Aug '15 01:16
    Here in California, in the past 3 days, a young girl, 8 years old, was murdered and her body was put into a dumpster. The person arrested for the crime is a 15 year old boy.

    Yet.....in the Bible, God specifically states that HUMAN life is very important to Him.

    This is but one story of thousands that happen every day, all around the world. Something is not right with this picture, and the issue of 'free will' cannot be the fall guy all the time.
  7. Standard memberRJHinds
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    03 Aug '15 03:48
    Originally posted by chaney3
    Here in California, in the past 3 days, a young girl, 8 years old, was murdered and her body was put into a dumpster. The person arrested for the crime is a 15 year old boy.

    Yet.....in the Bible, God specifically states that HUMAN life is very important to Him.

    This is but one story of thousands that happen every day, all around the world. Something ...[text shortened]... s not right with this picture, and the issue of 'free will' cannot be the fall guy all the time.
    Do you want to make God the fall guy all the time?
  8. Account suspended
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    03 Aug '15 03:54
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Do you want to make God the fall guy all the time?
    Your son is going to hell for being gay? Please explain HInds.

    Is your son going to hell?
  9. Standard memberRJHinds
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    03 Aug '15 04:47
    Originally posted by chaney3
    Your son is going to hell for being gay? Please explain HInds.

    Is your son going to hell?
    I believe God has provided a way of salvation, so I am putting my faith and trust in Christ.

    HalleluYaH !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!
  10. Account suspended
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    03 Aug '15 04:49
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I believe God has provided a way of salvation, so I am putting my faith and trust in Christ.

    HalleluYaH !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!
    Okay, so another BS interpretation of the Bible.....to suit your needs.

    According to your bible, your son will be suffering in Hell for eternity. Hope that's okay with you, because it is written.
  11. Standard memberRJHinds
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    03 Aug '15 04:55
    Originally posted by chaney3
    Okay, so another BS interpretation of the Bible.....to suit your needs.

    According to your bible, your son will be suffering in Hell for eternity. Hope that's okay with you, because it is written.
    Not if his name is written in the book of life from the foundation of the world.

    HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!
  12. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
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    03 Aug '15 05:35
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    I appreciate your answer (even if it wasn't the 'friendly' month of August) but my wait for understanding on this issue continues. The 'freewill' argument may have wings when it comes to 'evil acts' caused by man, but i don't think it can be stretched to account for 'evil acts' out of mans control.

    For a number of years i worked in terminal care ...[text shortened]... If God did indeed count the cost of giving the devil freewill, then i humbly request a recount.
    There are a lot of things that happen we could count toward being good or bad. Scripture
    teaches that God sends rain on the good and bad, those types of things happen to all
    people all of the time. God gives and God takes away, we are owed nothing by God, He
    blesses us all the time and more times than not we are unthankful, ungrateful for the gifts
    He gives daily.

    Our will and behavior does go to things being good or bad, we choose to act
    a specific way towards others. We don't send the rain, but we can send comfort, we can
    make sure someone is fed, cared for. We can give them the freedom to live as they will
    even if we disagree, or we could bind them up to make them do as we see fit. We could
    give them food for cost, make them pay for it in obedience or submission.

    I think real evil is when we act to harm another, when we force our will upon them, when
    we make them less than us, when we turn them into instruments of our pleasures or
    need to rule over.

    God gives us our lives, so all us receive this gift from God, God has also set a time
    that we will die in this life. So events that take us are not really evil, but those that deny
    us the time God has granted us are in my opinion. When God does it, it is just God
    doing God will do with what is God's.
  13. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    03 Aug '15 06:461 edit
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (Page 1)
    Rajk999, as an apparent skeptic, the basic absolute fact you must come to terms with is God's Divine Attribute of Justice: which means He's fair. Second is His Divine Attribute of Immutability: He does not and cannot change. (to be continued)
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    "Rajk999, as an apparent skeptic, the basic absolute fact you must come to terms with is God's Divine Attribute of Justice: which means He's fair. Second is His Divine Attribute of Immutability: He does not and cannot change. (to be continued)"
    _________________________________________

    Third is God's Divine Righteousness which is the focal point of the Character of God. It guards His Divine Justice which is never arbitrary: what His Righteousness approves of His Justice will bless; what His Righteousness condemns, His Justice will judge. Fourth, "God is Love." (1John 4:16) Divine Love is what God is and what He does, His Love is eternal and immutable. Unlike human love, it cannot change. (to be continued)
  14. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    03 Aug '15 06:551 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    (Before clicking on it) I bet myself $1,000,000 that the link at the top of your OP would be to one of your own threads.

    And guess what...
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (29 Jun '15 16:34)
    "Do we have a soul or not? Prove it!" (2015)

    Original post by phillip beer (on 01 Jun '04 16:34) Thread 11214 (7 Pages)
    Do we have a soul or not? Prove it!

    "It is the oldest of questions. Do we have an eternal soul or do we die and that is it. What is the nature of our consciousness?"
  15. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
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    03 Aug '15 07:051 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Given common descriptions of hell, I would rather be a robot than to end up there.
    But more important for this thread, if what will cause me to send myself to hell, is the fact that I do not believe in God, then that was never up to my 'free will' anyway. My lack of belief in a god is robotic in nature in that I cannot believe otherwise.
    In addition, th ck belief in God to send themselves to hell seem somewhat unjust - and certainly unloving to me.
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    "I cannot believe otherwise."

    You "cannot" or will not? All members of the human race have both positive and negative volition. Did Russ or anyone else force you to join Red Hot Pawn? Did I force you to post to this thread? Whether you accept or reject God's free gift of salvation and eternal life is entirely up to you.
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