How can a God of love send somebody to hell?

Originally posted by Coletti
"How can a loving God send anyone to hell?"

In Romans 9, Paul turns the question on its head. He asked, how can a just God not send everyone to hell. That is the question to answer. If all men are "vessels of wrath made for destruction," then why should a just and righteous God saving any? That anyone is saved from hell is a matter of God's grace and mercy.

You guys should change the name of the religion to "Paulian" as you cite Paul's writings about 100 times as much as the words of Jesus. Jesus specifically talks about Judgment Day in Matthew 25:31-46 and it really doesn't sound like BF101 and Darfius' "two-tiered" rubbish or your "Man is garbage" theory. Might want to try reading up on it.

Originally posted by no1marauder
You guys should change the name of the religion to "Paulian" as you cite Paul's writings about 100 times as much as the words of Jesus. Jesus specifically talks about Judgment Day in Matthew 25:31-46 and it really doesn't sound like BF101 and Darfius' "two-tiered" rubbish or your "Man is garbage" theory. Might want to try reading up on it.

Which part talks about the universal goodness of man? Hmmm? Where does Jesus say, man is really a decent sort, so I don't need it isn't necessary for me to suffer and die on the cross? It's not just Paul, it's Paul, James, Peter, John, and Jesus. And they are all God's world. As someone who rejects the reliability of Scripture out-of-hand, it's surprising that you take any firm stand on the issue.

Originally posted by Coletti
Which part talks about the universal goodness of man? Hmmm? Where does Jesus say, man is really a decent sort, so I don't need it isn't necessary for me to suffer and die on the cross? It's not just Paul, it's Paul, James, Peter, John, and Jesus. And they are all God's world. As someone who rejects the reliability of Scripture out-of-hand, it's surprising that you take any firm stand on the issue.

I can read just as well or certainly better than you, since I don't have a preexisting hatred and disdain for my fellow human beings like you do. How will we be judged on Judgment Day according to Jesus? On how we treat our fellow man. Seems odd that Jesus would even care how we treated such depraved garbage, doesn't it Coletti?

Originally posted by no1marauder
I can read just as well or certainly better than you, since I don't have a preexisting hatred and disdain for my fellow human beings like you do. How will we be judged on Judgment Day according to Jesus? On how we treat our fellow man. Seems odd that Jesus would even care how we treated such depraved garbage, doesn't it Coletti?

Not really.

We will be judged on our actions - but we will not be justified. By our actions and intentions we are all guilty. By Christ suffering and dieing we will be justified. Why would Christ need to die if we were good people? Why make the sacrifice? Why did Christ die one the cross? Do you know?

Originally posted by Coletti
Not really.

We will be judged on our actions - but we will not be justified. By our actions and intentions we are all guilty. By Christ suffering and dieing we will be justified. Why would Christ need to die if we were good people? Why make the sacrifice? Why did Christ die one the cross? Do you know?

Erm, it's not as though he had much of a choice.

Originally posted by Coletti
Not really.

We will be judged on our actions - but we will not be justified. By our actions and intentions we are all guilty. By Christ suffering and dieing we will be justified. Why would Christ need to die if we were good people? Why make the sacrifice? Why did Christ die one the cross? Do you know?

Christ, assuming He existed, died because he was spreading a belief that people in power didn't like. Those are the "facts" we can gleam from Scripture; the rest is just speculation and belief. Many people have died over the centuries because they knocked heads against the powers that be on philosophical issues; check a history book for verification of this.

Please reread Matthew 25:31-46 and point to where it says we are all guilty and only Christ's suffering and dying "justify" our salvation. Jesus' own description of Judgment Day says no such thing; salvation will be given or denied on the basis of how we treat others according to Jesus. Maybe you can claim that that is contradicted in other passages of the Bible, but you can't claim He didn't explicitly say it if you believe Scripture.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Christ, assuming He existed, died because he was spreading a belief that people in power didn't like. Those are the "facts" we can gleam from Scripture; the rest is just speculation and belief. Many people have died over the centuries because they knocked heads against the powers that be on philosophical issues; check a history book for veri ...[text shortened]... ssages of the Bible, but you can't claim He didn't explicitly say it if you believe Scripture.

Lets start with verse 31. Who is the "Son of Man"?

Originally posted by Coletti
Lets start with verse 31. Who is the "Son of Man"?

Why don't you simply give me your interpretion of Matthew 25:31-46 (you once said it was a "parable"😉 and we can discuss it, rather than playing 20 Questions?

Originally posted by no1marauder
Why don't you simply give me your interpretion of Matthew 25:31-46 (you once said it was a "parable"😉 and we can discuss it, rather than playing 20 Questions?

That is the core of his message.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Why don't you simply give me your interpretion of Matthew 25:31-46 (you once said it was a "parable"😉 and we can discuss it, rather than playing 20 Questions?

OK....don't know who the Son of Man is.

What about 'when' is this Son of Man coming? And in the next verse: who are the people? It says he will separate the people. We can say that there will be people from all the nations gathered together at some time when somebody comes "like" sheep and goats. It doesn't indicate if this is all the people in the world. And it doesn't say this is all the people from the past. And who are the sheep? Who are the goats? And then A King passes judgment on the goats and sheep. Hmmm...

One thing is certain: you can't take the text by itself and make any sense from it. At the very start we have metaphors and other similes. There an unidentified King. I'd don't think I'd want to just guess what it all means.

Originally posted by Coletti
OK....don't know who the Son of Man is.

What about 'when' is this Son of Man coming? And in the next verse: who are the people? It says he will separate the people. We can say that there will be people from all the nations gathere ...[text shortened]... g. I'd don't think I'd want to just guess what it all means.

I don't have time to respond in detail now, but I find your post hilarious. I would say it's about the clearest thing Jesus says in the Gospels. In addition, the two parables preceding it directly relate to the passage concerning Judgment Day. I would say that if you find this passage too unclear to understand, a direct description of Judgment Day by your God, you should find another religion.

PS Unless the Westminister Statement of Faith changed it, Son of Man in the NT always refers to Jesus as far as I know.

Originally posted by no1marauder
I don't have time to respond in detail now, but I find your post hilarious. I would say it's about the clearest thing Jesus says in the Gospels. In addition, the two parables preceding it directly relate to the passage concer ...[text shortened]... ion of Judgment Day by your God, you should find another religion.

Where does it say "Judgment Day?"

I think Mathew 15:34 is much clearer.

But don't think that by itself there is anything "clear" about Matthew 25:31-46. It is clear, but not by itself. However, you are welcome to explain it without considering OT text or any other books of the Bible. That is your claim isn't it? That the text is clear and there is no need to consult of consider any other parts of the Bible to understand it. Or maybe you are just guessing.

Originally posted by Coletti
OK....don't know who the Son of Man is.

What about 'when' is this Son of Man coming? And in the next verse: who are the people? It says he will separate the people. We can say that there will be people from all the nations gathered together at some time when somebody comes "like" sheep and goats. It doesn't indicate if this is all the people in ...[text shortened]... les. There an unidentified King. I'd don't think I'd want to just guess what it all means.

If this aint Christ , then praytell who is it?

25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy
angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

this is very clear, isn't it?
25:32
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate
them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the
goats:

the rest is defining sheeps and goats and the the judgements

Originally posted by frogstomp
If this aint Christ , then praytell who is it?

25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy
angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

this is very clear, isn't it?
25:32
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate
them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the
goats:

the rest is defining sheeps and goats and the the judgements

It only appear clear because you have some prior knowledge or you are making assumptions. If you handed this text to someone who had no familiarity or knowledge of Scripture, then he would have no clue what it meant. That is because the text by itself does not give us the information we need to interpret it's meaning.

We need other references in Scripture to understand it. In fact, terms like "Son of Man" don't make any sense without some knowledge of the Old Testament also. That is my point - that one can not simply grab parts of the Bible (say the sermon on the mount, or the parable of the prodigal son), and necessarily derive any useful meaning.

No1 one has been complaining that I don't use the words of Christ as my primary source of doctrine - and then he presents these verses in Mathew as 'clear' regarding the Day of Judgment. I counter that his claim is false. The text is not in itself sufficiently clear. In fact, the clarity of these verses requires the support of the OT and other books of the Bible - sources he claims are not needed. Sources I claim are not only reliable - but necessary for interpreting the words of Christ.

Originally posted by Coletti
It only appear clear because you have some prior knowledge or you are making assumptions. If you handed this text to someone who had no familiarity or knowledge of Scripture, then he would have no clue what it meant. That is because the text by itself does not give us the information we need to interpret it's meaning.

We need other references in Scrip ...[text shortened]... ources I claim are not only reliable - but necessary for interpreting the words of Christ.

You're a joke. The language is clear and whether it uses the words "Judgement Day" or not, it's an explicit description of it, the ONLY one in Scripture. You don't accept the words of Jesus yet call yourself a Christian. There are no loopholes; either Jesus is lying in Matthew 25 or your belief system is not Scriptural. Your call.