1. Joined
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    13 Jun '07 15:51
  2. Joined
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    13 Jun '07 15:581 edit
    Think for yourself.

    Quite simple, actually.
  3. Donationkirksey957
    Outkast
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    13 Jun '07 15:59
    Originally posted by LivingForJesus
    I hope you will enter the sermon competition.
  4. Standard memberscottishinnz
    Kichigai!
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    13 Jun '07 16:11
    Originally posted by LivingForJesus
    He apparently made you.
  5. Joined
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    13 Jun '07 17:35
    Originally posted by darvlay
    Think for yourself.

    Quite simple, actually.
    So we should think for ourselves and reject your answer of

    "Quite simple, actually"

    Thanks
  6. Joined
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    13 Jun '07 17:42
    Originally posted by jaywill
    So we should think for ourselves and reject your answer of

    [b] "Quite simple, actually"


    Thanks[/b]
    You can do whatever you want. You're a human being with free will and the ability to develop your own beliefs and values; you don't need me to tell you how to think. Who knows where you will end up? A theist, an atheist, an agnostic. The possibilities are endless.
  7. Joined
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    13 Jun '07 18:06
    what is the seromon competiton
  8. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    13 Jun '07 18:12
    Originally posted by LivingForJesus
    what is the seromon competiton
    The latest thing out to get ivanhoe.
  9. Standard memberHand of Hecate
    Merciless Vagabond
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    13 Jun '07 18:31
    Originally posted by LivingForJesus
    what is the seromon competiton
    Psalm 78:1. A psalm for Asaph. O God, the heathens are come into thy inheritance, they have defiled thy holy temple: they have made Jerusalem as a place to keep fruit.

    The sermon competition is your chance to bring God to the unbelievers. Check out the thread and follow the rules.
  10. Joined
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    14 Jun '07 09:11
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    are you saying if your life was okay you would still believe in him? so, any kind of hardship and you stop believing...

    i think your wife leaving you was a blessing... if she never met him she probably would have ended up taking you to the bingo... count your blessings with that one
  11. Cape Town
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    14 Jun '07 11:33
    Originally posted by eatmybishop
    are you saying if your life was okay you would still believe in him? so, any kind of hardship and you stop believing...
    Surely his implication was that any unnecessarily suffering is evidence that there is no loving God. Of course the problem is to know when it is unnecessary. Most Christians will argue that all suffering is necessary but fall all over themselves trying to explain why then when pushed fall back on the claim "only God knows".
    Clearly in his case the suffering was so severe that he could no longer explain it away as somehow being necessary.
  12. London
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    14 Jun '07 11:40
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Surely his implication was that any unnecessarily suffering is evidence that there is no loving God. Of course the problem is to know when it is unnecessary. Most Christians will argue that all suffering is necessary but fall all over themselves trying to explain why then when pushed fall back on the claim "only God knows".
    Clearly in his case the suffering was so severe that he could no longer explain it away as somehow being necessary.
    What's wrong with "only God knows"?

    Also, his inability to explain the necessity of the suffering does not mean it was unnecessary.

    Human beings are not omniscient.
  13. Cape Town
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    14 Jun '07 11:49
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    What's wrong with "only God knows"?
    If there is nothing wrong with it why do so many Christians always first try to jump through hoops with made up explanations before admitting that "only God knows"?
    The real problem with any "only God knows" answer is that Christians claim to know some things about God. How do you know he is a loving God? Based on his word or the evidence at hand? If the evidence is clearly in conflict then it is blind faith based on his word. How do you know he is telling the truth? You don't. The evidence clearly points to the likely hood that he is not. (or the possibility that he doesn't exist in the first place
  14. London
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    14 Jun '07 11:56
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    If there is nothing wrong with it why do so many Christians always first try to jump through hoops with made up explanations before admitting that "only God knows"?
    The real problem with any "only God knows" answer is that Christians claim to know some things about God. How do you know he is a loving God? Based on his word or the evidence at hand? If the ...[text shortened]... e likely hood that he is not. (or the possibility that he doesn't exist in the first place
    I don't know why "so many" Christians jump through hoops. Maybe they don't really jump through hoops -- maybe they just posit hypotheses. If these hypotheses are shown to have some apparent problems they do what any rational person would do and withdraw it to see whether it can be improved or should be ditched altogether. To an opponent that could very well look like "jumping through hoops" or backtracking.

    How do I know God is a loving God? Both based on the evidence and His word.

    How do I know God is telling the truth? That's actually easier to answer -- it's possible (though not uncomplicated -- St. Thomas Aquinas takes about half a volume to get there) to argue from first principles to the existence of a God who is truthful.
  15. Standard memberblakbuzzrd
    Buzzardus Maximus
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    14 Jun '07 12:58
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    I don't know why "so many" Christians jump through hoops. Maybe they don't really jump through hoops -- maybe they just posit hypotheses. If these hypotheses are shown to have some apparent problems they do what any rational person would do and withdraw it to see whether it can be improved or should be ditched altogether.
    Forgive the recourse to inductive reasoning here, but I think this forum furnishes ample evidence to suggest that the prevailing tendency among Christians is not in fact to withdraw their statements about God when such statements are shown to be problematic.

    It's much more common to see people try to do a few logical backflips, or to resort to an ad hominem attack, or both.

    People get mad when you try to make them think differently about something they love: that is, to think about that something in a way that they suspect will be unpleasant.

    Of course, the same principle obtains on the agnostic side of the aisle.
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