How Jesus Became God

@sonship said
You might as well keep going on and on about Ehrman's education.

You haven't produced a variant that I asked for which is a major alteration of the central teaching of the New Testament.

More to the point, you haven't said anything about the thread topic.

If you don't agree with Ehrman's work on what he sees as contradictions and discrepancies in the Bible for whatever reasons he has, I'm fine with that.

You can root for James White if you want to when he debates Ehrman. That's fine.

What about the book in the OP?

@sonship said
It was pointed out that on interview after Ehraman has done his speale and lest the interviewer astounded he was finally asked in essence " Well then what do you think the Gospels really originally said ? " Ehrman replies in essence "What do you mean?"

It ended up with Dr. Ehrman saying the New Testament originially said pretty much what we know them to say today! ...[text shortened]... well. I'm sure Oxford Press royalty checks to Ehrman will keep him in good stead for years to come.

What does this have to do with the OP?

@FMF

To examine why the disciples believed Jesus was God incarnate you go to the text of the New Testament. For it is in the text of the New Testament we see what the early Christians believed and taught about this.

In Mark (argued the earliest of the gospels) Jesus said things which His opposers took as Jesus making Himself God.

Ie. The audience lowered a sick man down through the ceiling of a house so that Jesus might heal him. Jesus did, but first He pronounced his sins forgiven.

And Jesus, seeing their faith says to the paralytic, Child, your sins are forgiven.

But there were some of the scribes sitting there and reasoning in their hearts.

Why is this man speaking this way? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins except one - God? (Mark 2:5-7)

Jesus spoke with the authority of God and was condemned for it. The passage goes on and does not have Him apologize but reinforce that it is easy for Him to both forgive by pronouncement and to miraculously heal.

And immediately Jesus, knowing in His spirit that they were reasoning this way among themselves, says to them,

Why are you reasoning these things in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, Your sins are forgiven, or to say, Rise, and pick up your bed and walk?

But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins - He says to the paralytic, To you I say, Rise, pick up your bed and go to your home. (vs 8-11)

The Son of Man is God in a man. And then and there to their anger Jesus became God. But to the disciples it was wonderful.

Written before the gospel of Mark is the letter to the Romans. In that letter Jesus Christ is God.

But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him. But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of the Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from among the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who in dwells you. (Rom. 8:9-11)

In a seamless way Paul uses interchangeably these titles

The Spirit of God,
The Spirit of Christ,
Christ,
The Spirit of Him who raise Jesus from the dead

The interchangeable use of each title with the other makes Jesus Christ become God the apostles understanding and teaching.

The Spirit of God dwelling in them is equal to the Spirit of Christ dwelling in them.

The Spirit of Christ dwelling in them is equal to Christ dwelling in them.

Christ dwelling in them is equal to the Spirit of Him Who raised Christ Jesus from the dead dwelling in them.

This early epistle therefore shows Paul taught that the indwelling Spirit of God was the God Who raised Jesus from the dead and was wonderfully Christ Himself.

@sonship said
Written before the gospel of Mark is the letter to the Romans. In that letter Jesus Christ is God.

[quote] But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him. But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the s ...[text shortened]... welling Spirit of God was the God Who raised Jesus from the dead and was wonderfully Christ Himself.

So has Professor Erhman got the history of Christology wrong?

@FMF

Yes.
Tell him sonship says "With all due respect Professor, you got it wrong as to how Jesus became God."

You can tell him I only have a BA in Computer Science.

@fmf said
What about the book in the OP?

Have you read or listened to the book?

Is there some specific point made by Ehrman in his book that you agree with, that contradicts the narrative of the Bible?

@sonship said
@FMF
Tell him sonship says "With all due respect Professor, you got it wrong as to how Jesus became God."

Ah, OK, I see what you did there. To be clear, I am not asking you about your personal belief regarding "how Jesus became God". The question was not about that: the question was 'Has Professor Erhman got the history of Christology wrong?' Do you know what the word "Christology" means? Do you know what a "history" is?

@secondson said
Have you read or listened to the book?

Is there some specific point made by Ehrman in his book that you agree with, that contradicts the narrative of the Bible?

You should just listen to it if you are interested.

We have (some have) seen that Paul says the indwelling One in the Christians in Rome is Christ Who is also the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead (See Romans 8-11).

Jesus is God.

We saw in Mark He forgave sins and was considered blaspheming. Why? Because only God can forgive sins.

Jesus is God become a man.

Going back centuries further we have the prophet Isaiah saying that the child born to Israel will be called "Mighty God". And the "son" given to Israel will be called "eternal Father".

So preemptively Jesus is already God when He is born as a child and given as a Son.

Matthew says concerning His birth that He will be called"Immanuel which means God with us.

In the coming of Jesus by human birth then, God came to be with us.

@FMF

Ah, OK, I see what you did there. To be clear, I am not asking you about your personal belief regarding "how Jesus became God". The question was not about that: the question was 'Has Professor Erhman got the history of Christology wrong?' Do you know what the word "Christology" means? Do you know what a "history" is?

I see no need to sterilize your question. Ehrman gives his personal belief. I can give mine. That it is personal doesn't necessarily make it true or false in either case.

Jesus "became God" obviously in the writing of the books of Romans pre-dating the writing of the gospels. And in Mark He "became God" when the educated scholars wanted to oppose Him for the "blasphemy" of forgiving sins as they understood ONLY God can do.

That it is my personal belief also is irrelevant.
And please don't try to make me think Bart Ehrman has no personal preference or belief about it because Ehrman himself would tell you he does.

In the Gospel of John Jesus "became God" in that John writes that He was what Isaiah saw in Isaiah 6 when centuries before he saw God.

But though He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him;

That the word of the prophet Isaiah which he said might be fulfilled, Lord, who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?

For this cause they could not believe, because Isaiah said again.

He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, that they might not see with their eyes and understand with their heart and be turned, and I shall heal them.

These things Isaiah said because he saw His glory and spoke concerning Him." (John 12:37-41)

And here in Isaiah 6 we see where Isaiah saw His [Christ's] glory before His incarnation.

In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting on a high and lofty throne, and the train of His robe filled the temple.

Seraphim hovered over HIm, each having six wings: With two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew:

And one called to the other, saying:
Holy, holy, holy, Jehovah of hosts;
The whole earth is filled with His glory.

And the foundations of the threshold shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke.

Then I said.
Woe is me, for I am finished!
For I am a man of unclean lips.
And in the midst of a people of unclean lips I dwell.

Yet my eyes have seen the King, Jehovah of hosts.

The one of the seraphim flew to me with an ember in his hand, which he had taken from the altar with a pair of tongs.

And he touched my mouth with it and said,
Now that this has touched your lips your iniquity is taken away, and your sin is purged. (Isaiah 6:106)

So in John chapter 12 in the intention of the evangelist Jesus had become God. The seeing of the glory of God and "Jehovah of hosts" by Isaiah in Isaiah chapter 6 was the seeing of the Lord Jesus.

@FMF

I'm listening to some now.

@fmf said
You should just listen to it if you are interested.

Sonship, secondson and kellyjay have no interest in examining the possibility that their religious beliefs are inaccurate or incorrect. They only seek their own truth, anything which affirms their own beliefs. They only feign interest.
The Earth is 6000 years old, Noah had dinosaurs on his ark, and Adam and Eve talked to a snake. That is their mantra.
Seeking truth is not part of their agenda.