How many here would vote for the ungod virus?

Originally posted by lausey
This is even more laughable.

Laugh yourself to death, then.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Laugh yourself to death, then.

While you gloat over me burning in hell? Never!

Originally posted by RJHinds
Laugh yourself to death, then.

Give us a hint as to how far in the future it will be before this final judgement day happens.

Do you think it will be within the next 100 years? 200? 1000? Give us your best estimate.

Not, we can't know, surely you as a man of god, can give us SOME hint?

What if it turns out judgement day comes in 4 billion years? Will humans still be around then?

Originally posted by sonhouse
Give us a hint as to how far in the future it will be before this final judgement day happens.

Do you think it will be within the next 100 years? 200? 1000? Give us your best estimate.

Not, we can't know, surely you as a man of god, can give us SOME hint?

What if it turns out judgement day comes in 4 billion years? Will humans still be around then?

I think it will be less than 1000 years. I understand Jesus as saying it
would be on the third day. In prophecy I understand a day is 1000
years. I understand the last days began when the messiah came to
earth.

P.S. So you see I believe we are living in the last day.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Give us a hint as to how far in the future it will be before this final judgement day happens.

Do you think it will be within the next 100 years? 200? 1000? Give us your best estimate.

Not, we can't know, surely you as a man of god, can give us SOME hint?

What if it turns out judgement day comes in 4 billion years? Will humans still be around then?

why does it matter when it comes? humans must live their lives knowing they will be judged. not necessarily in a "you go to hell and suffer for eternity for your wicked ways" way. but spiritual people believe an accounting must be made. if we hold that life has a meaning (and atheists do to), what have you done to fulfill your meaning? or THE meaning? you believe your rise and fall(again, not necessarily to hell) according to the manner in which you lived your life.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
why does it matter when it comes? humans must live their lives knowing they will be judged. not necessarily in a "you go to hell and suffer for eternity for your wicked ways" way. but spiritual people believe an accounting must be made. if we hold that life has a meaning (and atheists do to), what have you done to fulfill your meaning? or THE meaning? you b ...[text shortened]... and fall(again, not necessarily to hell) according to the manner in which you lived your life.

Imagine if you will, all life on earth coming to a judgement and rebirth. The question there would be 'WHY?' What possible reason would a god have to make trillions of humans (in our case) and then, this supposedly omniscient god who would know when it made the universe, exactly which human would be destined for 'hell', whatever that is, and some 'heaven' whatever that is.

So presumably only intelligent beings are subject to this judgement. So I feel pretty sure there are other intelligent life forms right here on the planet, whales, dolphins, porpoises, maybe some primates.

Why would such a god exclude those beings from the judgement?

Then you can look at all the galaxies and the billions of stars in those galaxies and see quite clearly a good portion of them are stars just like Sol, so on some of those stars would be planets that also could have intelligent life, fully equal or exceeding human level.

This supposedly omniscient god would have to be judging them also, wouldn't it?

So even on Earth, estimates are about a trillion people have born and died or are still alive so all trillion people will be judged and if that is the case and there are say, to pick a small number considering the size of the universe, say 1 million races with intelligence at least equal to humans, then millions of trillions of people coming under some kind of judgement at some unspecified future date? Would all these intelligences end up being judged at the same time? So say Hinds is right, Judgement comes 1000 years from now. Would it follow those other life forms would be judged on the same day?

So what we see as a universe billions of years old and good for billions more, all of this is to come to an end, say, in 1000 years?

Stand back and look at the big picture. How can you believe an omniscient god would have to judge people in the first place since it already knows what happens to every human ever to have been born and ever to be born, so there is no need for judgement, if such a thing happens, maybe there will be just a 8th dimensional doorway open up and the bad people go down one chute while good people go down another?

Can't you see how ridiculous all that sounds when you look at the bigger picture?

Originally posted by sonhouse
Imagine if you will, all life on earth coming to a judgement and rebirth. The question there would be 'WHY?' What possible reason would a god have to make trillions of humans (in our case) and then, this supposedly omniscient god who would know when it made the universe, exactly which human would be destined for 'hell', whatever that is, and some 'heaven' w ...[text shortened]... r?

Can't you see how ridiculous all that sounds when you look at the bigger picture?

as opposed to trillions of trillions of beings not being judged and just vanishing in a puff?

life is growth. and should a creator be , why shouldn't he judge how well we've grown during our allotted time?


"Why would such a god exclude those beings from the judgement?"
maybe he doesn't. maybe the judgement criteria for a dolphin is how well he ate fish if you wish to have them judged as well.


Would it follow those other life forms would be judged on the same day?
thats your concern? that god might not have time to fit all people in one day? that it should be called judgement week? year? or century? its an expression, get over it


"So what we see as a universe billions of years old and good for billions more, all of this is to come to an end, say, in 1000 years? "
who says it will come to an end in 1000 years? or 4 billions? or next week? who cares? one must live each day as if it's the last.


" How can you believe an omniscient god would have to judge people in the first place since it already knows what happens to every human ever to have been born and ever to be born"
there are many different theories explaining omniscience that doesn't interfere with the concept of free will. look them up. or don't.




the problem with you sparky is that you're used to argue with bible thumping noah's flood believers, young earth brain deads. and you came to this forum to make fun of them because you feel superior. and you like showing that. only in your arrogance, you insult the moderate theists who only differ from any other atheist out there in the fact that they personified, gave a face to concepts you already hold to be true. love, compassion, mercy, etc. you have them, i have them. only i hold that there is also a god, who embodies these concepts, who created us and who will judge us for how we use our gifts

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
as opposed to trillions of trillions of beings not being judged and just vanishing in a puff?

life is growth. and should a creator be , why shouldn't he judge how well we've grown during our allotted time?


"Why would such a god exclude those beings from the judgement?"
maybe he doesn't. maybe the judgement criteria for a dolphin is how well he ate ...[text shortened]... dies these concepts, who created us and who will judge us for how we use our gifts

All well and good but an omniscient god already knows who's naughty and who's nice. So it if has to judge, it is not omniscient.

Originally posted by sonhouse
All well and good but an omniscient god already knows who's naughty and who's nice. So it if has to judge, it is not omniscient.

The Holy Bible says God the Father judges no man. All judgement will be done
by the Son of God because He is in the unique position of also being man.
Whether he is omniscient should only concern you in that He knows enough
to judge you fairly.

Originally posted by sonhouse
All well and good but an omniscient god already knows who's naughty and who's nice. So it if has to judge, it is not omniscient.

flawed logic. to judge doesn't contradict omniscience. where did you get that from?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
flawed logic. to judge doesn't contradict omniscience. where did you get that from?

To judge means examining a subject or person and rendering some verdict. The fact that you have to render a verdict is pretty strong evidence of non-omniscientness.

Omniscient means you have knowledge of all things and all times all at once so in such an infinite knowledge based system, there is no judgement, since all results are known in advance.

Such a being would just see everything all at once and would not have to judge anything. It would already know the outcomes of every atom, every work of mankind till mankind goes extinct.

There would be no judgement there. The only judgement would be to tell people afterwards if they have been naughty or nice. You, nice, go through that door. You, naughty, go through that OTHER door.

Originally posted by sonhouse
To judge means examining a subject or person and rendering some verdict. The fact that you have to render a verdict is pretty strong evidence of non-omniscientness.

Omniscient means you have knowledge of all things and all times all at once so in such an infinite knowledge based system, there is no judgement, since all results are known in advance.

S ...[text shortened]... een naughty or nice. You, nice, go through that door. You, naughty, go through that OTHER door.

no, it bloody isn't. what kind of judgement do you give in ignorance? therefore, a judge must know what the judged has done in order to JUDGE them.



the results aren't known in advance because that would deny free will. therefore it stands to reason that god, if possessing omniscience or near-omniscience, would know all the possible outcomes but not what each individual would choose.


The only judgement would be to tell people afterwards if they have been naughty or nice. You, nice, go through that door. You, naughty, go through that OTHER door.

that's what judgement is. congrats. judgement isn't the discovery of truth but rendering a verdict once the truth has been discovered. and if it was known all along, what is the problem?

Originally posted by sonhouse
I think we should tell our congressmen, senators, parliament members, genetic scientists to support work on the virus that kills the god part of the brain, where the entire planet catches a cold and when they get well they look at the religious books written by the millions and go 'we believed in that BS?' Then the world begins to build a real civilization ...[text shortened]... here sign up to that? We could probably have the ungod virus in a couple of years of research.

I think a reading of the science of discworld II would be appropriate here.

The elves break into roundworld and make the people their believe in fairies,
which causes them to develop their imaginations, but they don't pay enough
attention to the real world so they haven't invented space lifts in time to
escape the asteroid that comes to wipe them out.

So the wizards of UU go in and back in time and fight the elves off, causing
humans not to develop imagination at all and thus are still sitting in a swamp
when the big rock appears.

I won't give away how they solve the problem but I think it might be applicable
to this argument.

That said I do believe that a decent and thorough education including a good
grounding in scientific scepticism would go a long way to solving the problem.

http://sd4kids.skepdic.com/scientificskepticism.html