Originally posted by Halitose
[b]The full argument is fairly complex, for an introductory discussion read 'probability one' by Amir Aczel; ISBN: 0349112479. Blah, blah, blah.
Uhm... okay... Hardly the rigorous "proof" I was expecting from one who seems to demand the same for the supernatural. I rest my case.
…the point about science is that you can develop theories which ...[text shortened]... o fall within a certain range and then seem somehow pleasantly surprised when they do .
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Uhm... okay... Hardly the rigorous "proof" I was expecting from one who seems to demand the same for the supernatural. I rest my case. "
You rest too early.
The argument I was putting forward is as I say, if nothing else, LONG. I have neither the time, space nor inclination to write it out in full in this forum. I did however give you details of where you might find it covered in more detail. I also had a basic summery of the central reasoning, if you have any questions about it feel free to ask them, but don't expect me to type up what an expert in the subject summarised in an, over 200 page, book in a word limited forum.
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Irrespective of which fashionable "theory" may hold sway over public opinion, there is still an objective reality (assumed by science) to which these theories have to conform to. My point: it is not the theory, but the objective reality that holds the ultimate Truth. "
As I stated all Current Theories match all available evidence otherwise they would be discarded, Also most of the general public has never heard about most of sciences theories, and don't want to hear about them. They do however use the results every day. In this case however we are operating almost entirely in the world of facts, the only thing that isn’t a known fact (i.e. actually been observed) is the existence of extra terrestrials. The existences of other planets, stars, and organic molecules in space have all been detected. Given that we exist then there must be a chance for life evolving (forming) in places with the right conditions, otherwise we wouldn't be here, and biologists are steadily increasing this chance as life is found in more and more inhospitable places, and the abundance of organic molecules in space. So it comes down to the maths, which is pretty much indisputable. So what is your problem?
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" There is no, and can be no, scientific theory which predicts the existence of god. "
You have an excellent grasp of the obvious. Scientific theories (I assume you mean "natural" scientific theories) by definition deal with natural phenomenon. How could they possibly predict or explain the Supernatural?
" ET is however a different matter, as ET is not what we might term here, the supernatural. "
Sooooo.... as the one falls within your arbitrarily assigned constraints of reality - it exists, while the other falls outside your arbitrary reality - it doesn't exist. I detect a painful circularity in reasoning: you constrain your possible solutions to fall within a certain range and then seem somehow pleasantly surprised when they do "
Ah here you misunderstand me by separating two connected sentences and taking them out of context. I did not mean that because I define ET to be natural and god to supernatural then the former must exist and later must not. My point (which I admit might have been clearer if I had included a full treatment of why the philosophies which form the bedrock for science and the supernatural are totally incompatible with each other, however have already presented this argument several times and at the very least I am getting tired of writing it if no one else is getting tired of reading it) is that science can't say anything about god because its underlying philosophy A Priory rejects god, you either; accept the rational world view of science and are an atheist, Accept the irrational world view of spirituality and one way or another become a theist, or you can't choose and become an agnostic. You may consider this to be stating the obvious but I for one have come across many who either don't understand, or don't agree with this. My reasoning is not circular, The central tenets of science are neither for, nor against, ET, the evidence we currently have however suggests, in the manner previously stated, that ET must exist, New evidence might change this, but evidence which might do that is, in my view at least, extremely unlikely to ever materialise/exist. (Please note, this does not mean I would ignore or bury such evidence if I were ever to come across such evidence). The only constraint science has is that it must match with reality, (or with our best measurements of it) which is of course the fundamental problem with the supernatural, if it exists it would make a nonsense of trying to take measurements.