1. Joined
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    16 Dec '07 04:52
    now i am stuck in a position where i believe in god(s) but idk who he/she/them/it is.
  2. Standard memberIron Monkey
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    16 Dec '07 04:58
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    now i am stuck in a position where i believe in god(s) but idk who he/she/them/it is.
    well, to say that you believe in a god or gods is to say that you believe in an entitiy or entities that has/have certain characterisitcs. So you could begin by saying what characteristics you believe god to have. e.g. god created everything, god is omniscient, god is omnipotent, god exists outside time and space, god loves his creation. that sort of thing. after that, there's probably not a lot more to be said - you've defined your conception of god.
  3. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    16 Dec '07 04:58
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    now i am stuck in a position where i believe in god(s) but idk who he/she/them/it is.
    Well, what is the propositional content of your belief?
  4. Joined
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    16 Dec '07 05:12
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Well, what is the propositional content of your belief?
    YouTube&feature=related

    i like the very last sentence, it was pretty amazing, he says:

    "if you still believe that you are the resault of blind chance/ that this universe was created by not a god, but just always existed, or just a cosmic birth from nothingness um... you have more faith than i do."
  5. Standard memberIron Monkey
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    16 Dec '07 05:16
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEXGKzH0F9c&feature=related

    i like the very last sentence, it was pretty amazing, he says:

    "if you still believe that you are the resault of blind chance/ that this universe was created by not a god, but just always existed, or just a cosmic birth from nothingness um... you have more faith than i do."
    if you can believe in an uncreated god, it shouldn't be too great a leap to believe in an uncreated universe.
  6. Joined
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    16 Dec '07 05:22
    Originally posted by Iron Monkey
    if you can believe in an uncreated god, it shouldn't be too great a leap to believe in an uncreated universe.
    his argument is that god exists outside of time so was never created, and that he is an intelligent creator, and has created everything purposely; in contrast, atheists believe it was all coincidence, that is where the atheist's faith is arguably stronger than a theists faith
  7. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    16 Dec '07 05:29
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEXGKzH0F9c&feature=related

    i like the very last sentence, it was pretty amazing, he says:

    "if you still believe that you are the resault of blind chance/ that this universe was created by not a god, but just always existed, or just a cosmic birth from nothingness um... you have more faith than i do."
    Then the very last sentence is a complete fallacy.

    Your person believes that a magic man, who either self created or has always existed, created the universe, vast in size and duration, for the sole benefit of a tiny blip somewhere on one of the edges. He believes that an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being sacrificed himself to himself in order to repay his own blood debt that he set up and he demands, for apparently no logical reason whatsoever. This 4Os God is running an "experiment" which he already knows the answer to, and which cannot deviate from his own omniscience.

    Atheists have logic, reason and parsimony. Theists have "Goddunnit", and "superstition".
  8. Joined
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    16 Dec '07 05:41
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    Then the very last sentence is a complete fallacy.

    Your person believes that a magic man, who either self created or has always existed, created the universe, vast in size and duration, for the sole benefit of a tiny blip somewhere on one of the edges. He believes that an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being sacrificed himself t ...[text shortened]...
    Atheists have logic, reason and parsimony. Theists have "Goddunnit", and "superstition".
    you obviously didnt pay attention to the video, or did not watch it all. he does use proof, matter can not be destroyed or created, and since it exists in time, it had a beginning, implying that an entity created it, an entity that exists outside of time. he says it is god, but i say it is an unknown entity at this moment.
  9. Melbourne, Australia
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    16 Dec '07 05:45
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    you obviously didnt pay attention to the video, or did not watch it all. he does use proof, matter can not be destroyed or created, and since it exists in time, it had a beginning, implying that an entity created it, an entity that exists outside of time. he says it is god, but i say it is an unknown entity at this moment.
    I Love the way these guys use science when they like and then abandon it when it doesn't suit them anymore.

    Matter can't be created or destroyed, but wait, the big bang can't work.
    What a crock.
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    16 Dec '07 05:55
    Originally posted by amannion
    I Love the way these guys use science when they like and then abandon it when it doesn't suit them anymore.

    Matter can't be created or destroyed, but wait, the big bang can't work.
    What a crock.
    when did he abandon science? i didnt catch that.
  11. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    16 Dec '07 06:06
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    you obviously didnt pay attention to the video, or did not watch it all. he does use proof, matter can not be destroyed or created, and since it exists in time, it had a beginning, implying that an entity created it, an entity that exists outside of time. he says it is god, but i say it is an unknown entity at this moment.
    So...can matter be created or not?
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    16 Dec '07 06:15
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    So...can matter be created or not?
    i believe he is making the point that science has contradicted itself in believing that matter cannot be destroyed, but since the universe began in time, it had a beginning, and matter does not exist without time and space. so, he is saying it CAN be created, but it was created by a being outside of time, space, and matter, a being that exists in eternity; god.
  13. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    16 Dec '07 06:29
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    i believe he is making the point that science has contradicted itself in believing that matter cannot be destroyed, but since the universe began in time, it had a beginning, and matter does not exist without time and space. so, he is saying it CAN be created, but it was created by a being outside of time, space, and matter, a being that exists in eternity; god.
    You are begging causality again. Quit it, already. That requires time, and that requires the universe.
  14. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    16 Dec '07 06:32
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    i believe he is making the point that science has contradicted itself in believing that matter cannot be destroyed, but since the universe began in time, it had a beginning, and matter does not exist without time and space. so, he is saying it CAN be created, but it was created by a being outside of time, space, and matter, a being that exists in eternity; god.
    Mass-energy was present in the singularity, before the Big Bang as far as we know.
  15. Joined
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    16 Dec '07 06:33
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Mass-energy was present in the singularity, before the Big Bang as far as we know.
    he is not talking about the big bang, he is talking about the beginning of time.
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