28 Sep 14
Originally posted by Rajk9992 Thess 2:13
Quite a few of your beliefs are not in the Bible or your interpretation is off.
Personal relationship with Christ is one such example. The Bible has no such thing but you claim to know all about it.
Here is another :
.. some here who really want to ignore Jesus
and claim God must accept them by their works.
Christ explained who it is tha ...[text shortened]... ho pass Jesus without stopping to give him food or water or clothes or a place to sleep etc etc.
But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.
We are saved through God's work no our own, we are saved to do the
works of God, we are not to do good works for God to be saved.
Ephesians 2:8-10New International Version (NIV)
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
My works do not save me, God's does, then I'm honored to do the works
that God has for me to do.
Kelly
28 Sep 14
Originally posted by Rajk999What I got is just what you and I agree on, that if we are obeying Christ
Quite a few of your beliefs are not in the Bible or your interpretation is off.
Personal relationship with Christ is one such example. The Bible has no such thing but you claim to know all about it.
Here is another :
.. some here who really want to ignore Jesus
and claim God must accept them by their works.
Christ explained who it is tha ...[text shortened]... ho pass Jesus without stopping to give him food or water or clothes or a place to sleep etc etc.
we will be doing good works not avoiding them. Where we disagree is
that you seem to think that good works forces God to accept you! I'm
telling you that is not what scripture teaches that we are saved by the
work of God, and we will do His works after we are saved.
You claim those that do not have the Spirit of God in them can still be
saved by doing good works, and you also suggest is okay that anyone
who does not believe in Jesus is not condemned before God if they do
good works, that too is not what the scripture teaches.
John 3:
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
28 Sep 14
3 edits
Originally posted by KellyJayI believe you are missing his point. He has a different view of salvation and eternal life. He divides it in two parts.
What I got is just what you and I agree on, that if we are obeying Christ
we will be doing good works not avoiding them. Where we disagree is
that you seem to think that good works forces God to accept you! I'm
telling you that is not what scripture teaches that we are saved by the
work of God, and we will do His works after we are saved.
You claim t ...[text shortened]... e stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
1. The death of Christ paid the price for all sin of the world. All of mankind was saved from the condemnation that Adams sin brought.
2. The eternal life part requires certain things from the believer like faith and works.
The difference seems to be that in the view of Rajk999 all mankind are saved from the consequences of original sin regardless of their belief, but this does not qualify them for eternal life.
To qualify for eternal life, they must believe in God and Christ and demonstrate faith by obedience to Christ's commands and by doing good deeds and works.
Your view is that only believers in God and Christ are saved and they are saved from both original sin and all their own sins and this automatically qualifies them for eternal life. Any good deeds and works flows from their faith and love of God and Christ.
Did I state your view correctly or did I miss something?
Originally posted by RJHindsMy view is that Jesus is the only way to God, He is the Way, the Truth, and
I believe you are missing his point. He has a different view of salvation and eternal life. He divides it in two parts.
1. The death of Christ paid the price for all sin of the world. [b]All of mankind was saved from the condemnation that Adams sin brought.
2. The eternal life part requires certain things from the believer like faith and w ...[text shortened]... ir faith and love of God and Christ.
Did I state your view correctly or did I miss something?[/b]
the Life and only in Christ are we saved. I believe God gives us His Spirit so
that He can live within us, teaching us and guiding us as we go.
I believe as we get to know the Lord our faith grows and we will do good
works as He leads us. That will be a byproduct of our salvation, not the
earning of it.
There are several warnings too on walking away from our faith, which I do
take seriously as well.
Kelly
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- 100919
28 Sep 14
Originally posted by KellyJayExactly what I have been saying all along. I agree completely.🙂
My view is that Jesus is the only way to God, He is the Way, the Truth, and
the Life and only in Christ are we saved. I believe God gives us His Spirit so
that He can live within us, teaching us and guiding us as we go.
I believe as we get to know the Lord our faith grows and we will do good
works as He leads us. That will be a byproduct of our salvat ...[text shortened]... several warnings too on walking away from our faith, which I do
take seriously as well.
Kelly
28 Sep 14
Originally posted by KingOnPointFor the last time ... I have answered many of your questions and you repeatedly ignore my answer. I have nothing to reply to your comments.
RajK,
Did you read my post to you on the first page of your OP? What are your thoughts on my post to you? It is located on RHP at:
http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=160882&page=&page=1
28 Sep 14
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsI have said this to KJ several times now but he did not understand what I was saying.
I believe you are missing his point. He has a different view of salvation and eternal life. He divides it in two parts.
1. The death of Christ paid the price for all sin of the world. [b]All of mankind was saved from the condemnation that Adams sin brought.
2. The eternal life part requires certain things from the believer like faith and w ...[text shortened]... ir faith and love of God and Christ.
Did I state your view correctly or did I miss something?[/b]
Your points 1 and 2, is a good summary of what the Bible says. The entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation is about the coming of a Messiah who will die for the sins of mankind .. all men, the whole world. It was promised to Adam, Moses, David, Abraham, Issac, Jabob, all the Prophets spoke of Christ coming to die for the sins of the world. The grace of God that bringeth salvation has appeared the ALL men.
Even the most quoted passage in the world says it.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
God loves the WORLD and gave his son to die for the world. Christ death is a distinct and separate event from those that believe and how they can get eternal life.
And again:
.. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:1-2 KJV)
All of mankind is SAVED BY GRACE. God has provided a vehicle through which anyone can get eternal life.
28 Sep 14
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999I understand how we can understand it both ways. Also the third parable in Matthew 25 could be understood to refer to how we treat the Jewish people, since He was a Jew and His brothers would be the Jews. Jesus said,
I have said this to KJ several times now but he did not understand what I was saying.
Your points 1 and 2, is a good summary of what the Bible says. The entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation is about the coming of a Messiah who will die for the sins of mankind .. all men, the whole world. It was promised to Adam, Moses, David, Abraham, Issac, Jabob, a ...[text shortened]... ankind is SAVED BY GRACE. God has provided a vehicle through which anyone can get eternal life.
The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’
Matthew 25:40 NASB
28 Sep 14
Originally posted by RJHindsI cannot see why such a basic and fundamental concept like 'the Grace of God' needs to be understood in more that one way. The Bible says that God sent Christ to die for the sins of the whole world. That is what saved by grace means. All of mankind is saved from the curse of death caused by Adams sin. It a free undeserved gift of God.
I understand how we can understand it both ways. Also the third parable in Matthew 25 could be understood to refer to how we treat the Jewish people, since He was a Jew and His brothers would be the Jews. Jesus said,The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’
Matthew 25:40 NASB
Christ also stated what he means by his brothers :
Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Since none of us are in a position to know who does the will of God, then I would say that statement about helping the least of Christ brothers would apply to pretty much anyone that crosses our path.
28 Sep 14
Originally posted by Rajk999That is a different context. However, if you did use that context, they are still limited to those that do the will of the Father in heaven.
I cannot see why such a basic and fundamental concept like 'the Grace of God' needs to be understood in more that one way. The Bible says that God sent Christ to die for the sins of the whole world. That is what saved by grace means. All of mankind is saved from the curse of death caused by Adams sin. It a free undeserved gift of God.
Christ also stated w ...[text shortened]... ut helping the least of Christ brothers would apply to pretty much anyone that crosses our path.
29 Sep 14
Originally posted by Rajk999As I have pointed out to you that true, Jesus died for us all, every single
I have said this to KJ several times now but he did not understand what I was saying.
Your points 1 and 2, is a good summary of what the Bible says. The entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation is about the coming of a Messiah who will die for the sins of mankind .. all men, the whole world. It was promised to Adam, Moses, David, Abraham, Issac, Jabob, a ...[text shortened]... ankind is SAVED BY GRACE. God has provided a vehicle through which anyone can get eternal life.
one of us it is a point you, I, and I do believe every single Christian on this
site agrees on. There is no debate about Jesus dying for all us and raising
from the dead for all of us, settled, agreed, we can go on repeating it if you
like it is the good news.
You do realize that not everyone will be saved?
Kelly
29 Sep 14
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayEveryone is already saved from sin which was inherited from Adam.
As I have pointed out to you that true, Jesus died for us all, every single
one of us it is a point you, I, and I do believe every single Christian on this
site agrees on. There is no debate about Jesus dying for all us and raising
from the dead for all of us, settled, agreed, we can go on repeating it if you
like it is the good news.
You do realize that not everyone will be saved?
Kelly
That was the free gift - the Grace of God - the thing we could not save ourselves from - our filthy rags of righteousness could not help us.
Not everyone will gets eternal life - that requires faith and works.
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- 100919
29 Sep 14
Originally posted by Rajk999If that is the case, then what is the point of "everyone" getting saved? Was the Crucifixion for nothing? Saved from what and why?
Everyone is already saved from sin which was inherited from Adam.
That was the free gift - the Grace of God - the thing we could not save ourselves from - our filthy rags of righteousness could not help us.
Not everyone will gets eternal life - that requires faith and works.