If God Appeared To You

Originally posted by @moonbus
What if God asks you to sacrifice yourself to atone for the sins of humanity?

Such as setting up a situation in which you know you will be killed.

In the case of Jesus, he knew that the pain was temporary and that the end result would be back in heaven with God where he was before. Me .. wont have a problem with that.

Originally posted by @rajk999
In the case of Jesus, he knew that the pain was temporary and that the end result would be back in heaven with God where he was before. Me .. wont have a problem with that.

Word man.

You'll work out any problems with proper prep!

Originally posted by @js357
You are stretching the premises of the OP beyond recognition. Why are you doing that? Is it because if you stick to the OP premises, my behavior is understandable?

Compare your version to: “...you are convinced that He is who He says He is” and it may be more understandable. Otherwise you are asking me to defend a straw man.

Edit: simply put, my unders ...[text shortened]... P premise stated above would not be satisfied and I would not consider myself to have said duty.

I don’t think I’m stretching anything at all; this is a discussion forum and you frequently question theists on thier beliefs and actions, I’m questioning you on yours.

I find it genuinely interesting that you, a declared atheist, believes that should the existence of god become apparent to you, and said god requested you to kill, that you would do so against your own moral code.

I would not, I would refuse. What that may say about me the theist vs you the atheist and our respective moral compasses, is the interesting point in play.

Originally posted by @divegeester
I don’t think I’m stretching anything at all; this is a discussion forum and you frequently question theists on thier beliefs and actions, I’m questioning you on yours.

I find it genuinely interesting that you, a declared atheist, believes that should the existence of god become apparent to you, and said god requested you to kill, that you would do ...[text shortened]... theist vs you the atheist and our respective moral compasses, is the interesting point in play.

The stretch is characterizing my conviction as being about a god “you’ve never known, who suddenly turns up and presented itself” as if I have round heels for the first hallucination or manifestation of Satan that comes along. But question away.

My sole declaration for some time now, and the only one I stand behind, is that I lack belief in deity. I don’t call myself or subscribe to the label of atheist as one who has a positive belief that no deity exists.

You must have me confused with someone else or with your stereotype of an atheist.

In the hypothetical, said god commands, not requests. And I said nothing on the commanded act being for or against my own moral code.*

I thought we were coming to an understanding so I could ask questions on the meaning behind the kind of people this god would command us to kill. It seems to set up a challenge about some OT commands, probably aimed at Sonship.

But we’re not getting anywhere. If you come to the conclusions you have, based on my answers to questions, I don’t see much value in answering them.

*quick edit. Some aspects of my hypothetical moral code in this hypothetical can be inferred.

Originally posted by @js357
The stretch is characterizing my conviction as being about a god “you’ve never known, who suddenly turns up and presented itself” as if I have round heels for the first hallucination or manifestation of Satan that comes along. But question away.

My sole declaration for some time now, and the only one I stand behind, is that I lack belief in deity. I don’t ...[text shortened]...

*quick edit. Some aspects of my hypothetical moral code in this hypothetical can be inferred.

To be honest with you this is sounds like a slightly more verbose version of the dodge that some of the religionists pitch in here and your cries of ‘we’re not getting anywhere’ simply don’t deflect from your original declarative post where you expressed surprise that more Christians didn’t hold the same view as you. I think we are getting somewhere!

But hey-ho, you don’t want your attitude scrutinised but it seems that you are happy to scrutinise others. I guess I hope that your somehow non-atheistic, but nerverthrless sincere “lack of a belief in a deity” doesn’t turn into belief in a deity who tells you to kill me 😕

Originally posted by @divegeester
To be honest with you this is sounds like a slightly more verbose version of the dodge that some of the religionists pitch in here and your cries of ‘we’re not getting anywhere’ simply don’t deflect from your original declarative post where you expressed surprise that more Christians didn’t hold the same view as you. I think we are getting somewhere!
...[text shortened]... re “lack of a belief in a deity” doesn’t turn into belief in a deity who tells you to kill me 😕

"... your original declarative post where you expressed surprise that more Christians didn’t hold the same view as you..."

Well, there being a surprise here told me that at least one of my assumptions was wrong. I believe it was the idea that having faith in a Christian God's existence entails acknowledging a moral obligation to worship and obey the commands of God because they are commands of God. For a significant sample of Christians, it doesn't, and this does not set our righteousness over God's, perhaps because we are called upon by God to develop our moral sense further than blindly waiting around for the next divine command.

Hypothetically, that is.

Originally posted by @js357
"... your original declarative post where you expressed surprise that more Christians didn’t hold the same view as you..."

Well, there being a surprise here told me that at least one of my assumptions was wrong. I believe it was the idea that having faith in a Christian God's existence entails acknowledging a moral obligation to worship and obey the comman ...[text shortened]... nse further than blindly waiting around for the next divine command.

Hypothetically, that is.

In the completeness of the Christian doctrine it is quite straightforward to robustly demonstrate that obedience is conditional to the newly spoken command not contradicting the “New” Covenant. There are unequivocal scriptures stating that the Christian god has elevated his “name” (existentially and revealingly being the name of Jesus) and his “word”. In fact his written word is even above his name. Ref psalm 138 for example.

I would feel quite comfortable defending my position on the basis of the word of god in this respect should I be so-called on to do so, therefore your premise that there is a “moral requirement” to obey a newly spoken command of god which is contrary to the word, is moot.

Nevertheless the OP is clearly leaning into a moral perspective which orients itself not around the somewhat legal (for want of a better word) technicalities of the writen word vs the spoken word of god, and rather around what the recipient feels is the right thing to do. My response through this thread, as a theist and Christian, is that I would disobey my god if I truly believed the command to be morally wrong.

My point with your call is that given the same circumstances, you would obey irrespective of whether you thought the command to be morally wrong. It’s an interesting position you have taken up and not one I would have expected from you. Perhaps you were not being your true self, I’m just trying to find out.

Originally posted by @divegeester
In the completeness of the Christian doctrine it is quite straightforward to robustly demonstrate that obedience is conditional to the newly spoken command not contradicting the “New” Covenant. There are unequivocal scriptures stating that the Christian god has elevated his “name” (existentially and revealingly being the name of Jesus) and his “word”. I ...[text shortened]... have expected from you. Perhaps you were not being your true self, I’m just trying to find out.

But how cn you truly believe the command of God to be morally wrong? Isn’t your god omnibenevolant and omniscient?

Originally posted by @js357
But how cn you truly believe the command of God to be morally wrong? Isn’t your god omnibenevolant and omniscient?

Not in this hypothesis, obviously, as the commander would compromise my own morality.

How do you rationalise your decision to kill, surely you find murder to be against your moral code?

Originally posted by @divegeester
Not in this hypothesis, obviously, as the commander would compromise my own morality.

How do you rationalise your decision to kill, surely you find murder to be against your moral code?

It wasn't stated to be murder. it was stated as a killing. but that aside, I'm done.

Originally posted by @bigdoggproblem
God would probably get impatient with all the questions I asked and zap me dead on the spot.

He didn't zap Job. Do you think you have better questions than Job had?

Originally posted by @sonship
He didn't zap [b]Job. Do you think you have better questions than Job had?[/b]

You have reading comprehension difficulties. I said "many". You read "better".

Originally posted by @bigdoggproblem
You have reading comprehension difficulties. I said "many". You read "better".

There was no need for you to jump on the reading comprehention band wagon. What I read and what I ASKED are different.

And I ASKED if you have better questions then Job had?

Well? Do you?