"If God didn't exist... "

Originally posted by RJHinds
You didn't watch the video.

The Instructor

No, I haven't been convinced that it is worth watching.

Originally posted by twhitehead
No, I haven't been convinced that it is worth watching.

It is not really, except for a little humor. The atheist on the video seems to be disgusted with atheists like you that think you are Mensa candidates with your so-called rational thinking.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
It is not really, except for a little humor. The atheist on the video seems to be disgusted with atheists like you that think you are Mensa candidates with your so-called rational thinking.

The Instructor

You're projecting, I very much doubt twhitehead thinks anything like that.
And I know I don't.

Rationality and skepticism are defences against the biases and heuristics we
are ALL prone to fall pray to.

You don't become more intelligent by becoming a skeptic/rationalist.
But you should, if you're doing it right, make fewer mistakes, and be better
able to spot and correct those that you do make.

Originally posted by googlefudge
You're projecting, I very much doubt twhitehead thinks anything like that.
And I know I don't.

Rationality and skepticism are defences against the biases and heuristics we
are ALL prone to fall pray to.

You don't become more intelligent by becoming a skeptic/rationalist.
But you should, if you're doing it right, make fewer mistakes, and be better
able to spot and correct those that you do make.

It doesn't seem to be working for you, IMO.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
It doesn't seem to be working for you, IMO.

The Instructor

Because you think he should believe in irrational faiths? Like yours? You are the one steeped in irrationality and you don't even know it.

Originally posted by RJHinds
You apparently don't understand the Holy Bible. Just asking for forgiveness is not enough for God and just doing good works is not enough either.

The Instructor

hmm it depends which type of christian you are
the nondenominational types told me that forgiveness and works is enough
jesus preached about works, and being a kind person

that's my take on it. what type of christian are you, RJ?

Originally posted by twhitehead
I believe it is a result of rational thought and is the truth. I believe it is better to live your life knowing the truth.

It doesn't make sense because nobody claimed that. What my claim is, is that rational thought leads to atheism. To justify theism you must be irrational. Its not that you can't think rationally because of your belief, its that you ...[text shortened]... makes.
It has also been addressed in this thread if you care to read from the beginning.

ok, so it is just a belief that you have. fair enough, as i have my own 🙂

as for "you don't want to think rationally because doing so would destroy your belief", i will have to disagree. i think rationally, and it hasn't destroyed any of my beliefs. it is rational to think that a god may exist since it is possible that may be the truth. likewise, i also realize that i may be wrong, and i take comfort knowing that. it is the comfort of knowing that you are only an ant in such a (seemingly) infinite plane of existence, and that you do not know all the answers. our ignorance is so vast, that we sometimes forget our place in the observable universe. to claim positively that there is no god seems arrogant, to me. i remember watching the weak atheists battle the strong atheists about that slim chance several times. no offense, but the strong atheists are as stubborn as the fundamentalists they despised so vehemently (these observations were on other sites and not this one)

i have heard of the book "the god delusion"...it has been addressed already? i will look for the post, but could you point it out to me if i don't find it? thanks!

Originally posted by sonhouse
I agree there are plenty of Muslims who don't believe in the extremist views.

The one thing I do note is the extremists have a power over a lot more people than the moderates, and the damage extremists do is way worse per person than any moderate. Just look at the most recent Boston bombers and the ones going on in Iraq, Sunni against Shia's. They are the same religion but still bomb each other.

ehhh, lets not talk about the "boston bombers"

i do agree with you. the extremists are so insecure with themselves that they feel the need to cause harm onto others minding their own business. it is sad...

the devil within us all spins webs to cloud our better judgement
war isn't the answer. it is a tool to make a profit on human lives

Originally posted by empovsun
ok, so it is just a belief that you have. fair enough, as i have my own 🙂

Not all beliefs are equal, and the fact that mine is a belief doesn't make it 'just a belief' and therefore equal to your delusion.

as for "you don't want to think rationally because doing so would destroy your belief", i will have to disagree. i think rationally, and it hasn't destroyed any of my beliefs.
I will have to disagree that you think rationally. Your comment on what I said being 'just a belief' demonstrates this.

it is rational to think that a god may exist since it is possible that may be the truth.
That depends on how you define 'god'. I say it is not rational to think that many definitions of god exist, especially those that contain obvious internal logical inconsistencies or contradict known facts about the universe.
It is also not rational to go from 'it may exist' to 'it probably exists' or even 'it does exist' without some form of evidence to that effect.

likewise, i also realize that i may be wrong, and i take comfort knowing that. it is the comfort of knowing that you are only an ant in such a (seemingly) infinite plane of existence, and that you do not know all the answers. our ignorance is so vast, that we sometimes forget our place in the observable universe. to claim positively that there is no god seems arrogant, to me.
Is it equally arrogant to claim that there is no Santa? What is your stance on Santa? Or does rationality go out the window with regards to Santa?

i have heard of the book "the god delusion"...it has been addressed already? i will look for the post, but could you point it out to me if i don't find it? thanks!
My first post on page one of the thread among others.

Originally posted by twhitehead
No, I haven't been convinced that it is worth watching.

you should as it is funny
he mainly digs on atheists that whine about religion too much
when there are bigger fish to fry like political machines and war profiteers

and on the stupid atheists too. worth a watch. its around 28mins

Originally posted by empovsun
you should as it is funny
he mainly digs on atheists that whine about religion too much
when there are bigger fish to fry like political machines and war profiteers

and on the stupid atheists too. worth a watch. its around 28mins

He's angrily ranting, in a video with bad sound quality and editing.

It's actually unpleasant to try to watch.
If you think he makes a good point then make it yourself or find a better
quality video that makes it that is actually watchable.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Not all beliefs are equal, and the fact that mine is a belief doesn't make it 'just a belief' and therefore equal to your delusion.

I will have to disagree that you think rationally. Your comment on what I said being 'just a belief' demonstrates this.

That depends on how you define 'god'. I say it is not rational to think that many definitions of go ...[text shortened]... dow with regards to Santa?

My first post on page one of the thread among others.

sure, but it is still a belief, and not fact. can you agree to that much?

i cannot define "god". that is ridiculous! a lesser being as myself trying to comprehend something beyond myself? i will say that what "god" gave us was a gift. you can argue if it was a good or bad one, but a gift nonetheless. god may exist due to our own ignorance, simply put. we do not have the knowledge to dismiss god, nor do we have the knowledge to prove that god exists. i suppose one could ask if aliens created us, if we would regard them as god(s)...

santa may exist too 😀
however, he may not be the same person as the commercialized version of him. i'm thinking of the original santa story. saint nicholas!

ok, i will go check your first post now

Originally posted by googlefudge
He's angrily ranting, in a video with bad sound quality and editing.

It's actually unpleasant to try to watch.
If you think he makes a good point then make it yourself or find a better
quality video that makes it that is actually watchable.

nevermind

if you don't like the way the information is being presented then fine. cry me a river. as for the content, it is worth it. i try to look past methodology and go straight for the content

Originally posted by twhitehead
Paul Dirac II covers some of the main points, but I would also add:
Political decisions due to religion.
Civil wars due to different religions.
Wars/conflict over 'holy places'.
Bigotry, racism, slavery, homophobia, etc. People exploit religion to justify their views.
In fact, exploitation of religion is common place and covers almost every area of l ...[text shortened]... were atheists, or atheists were Muslims (assuming you yourself believe Muslims have it wrong.)

yes, exploitation of ORGANIZED religion is a problem indeed
all of these things listed are problems with organized religion

but the OP didn't mention that, did he? no, he spoke of god, and god alone
it is true that there are evil/lazy people out there that just go along with things, and some of those things are inherently evil acts of violence, and death. as i said before, it is ultimately upon the individual to choose for themselves what they were placed here to do. some choose war, some choose peace. i like the peaceful peoples better 🙂

i do not believe that god put us here on this planet to kill each other until we're extinct. nor destroying the environment given to us either. science is a very useful tool, but in the wrong hands...well, einstein regretted making the bomb, did he not?

Originally posted by empovsun
sure, but it is still a belief, and not fact. can you agree to that much?

I believe it is a fact. What do you see as the difference between facts and beliefs?

i cannot define "god". that is ridiculous! a lesser being as myself trying to comprehend something beyond myself?
So at a minimum you define God as being a 'greater being than yourself' and 'incomprehensible'? I don't expect a comprehensive definition, but without at least some properties being defined, one cannot discuss whether an entity matching the definition exists.

i will say that what "god" gave us was a gift. you can argue if it was a good or bad one, but a gift nonetheless.
So 'god' is an entity that gave us a gift? What gift?

god may exist due to our own ignorance, simply put. we do not have the knowledge to dismiss god,
I say that depending on the definition of God, then yes we do have the knowledge to dismiss its existence. So far, you haven't been at all clear about what 'god' is, so I would have to agree that I cannot dismiss its existence. But if you are talking about the Christian God, then I believe I do have the knowledge to dismiss its existence.

nor do we have the knowledge to prove that god exists. i suppose one could ask if aliens created us, if we would regard them as god(s)...
So you do leave open the possibility that aliens created us? Do you believe that they did? If not, why is it rational to believe in God but not aliens?

santa may exist too 😀
however, he may not be the same person as the commercialized version of him. i'm thinking of the original santa story. saint nicholas!
What about the commercialized version, or some other version other than the original story? Why did you essentially dodge the question?
Do you see that even with Santa we have a definition problem? It is virtually impossible to rule out Santa's existence if we don't get specific about what we mean by the word. But if we are specific, I think you would rule out some definitions. I also think it is incorrect to jump from "I can't rule out any possible Santa" to "any Santa I can think of may exist".
Are you a believer in Santa? If not, why not?

I suspect that you believe in a fairly specific definition of God, but will try to keep the definition general in order to use the flawed logic I mention above.