1. Standard memberRJHinds
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    26 Aug '12 18:08
    The Holy Bible starts with the beginning of the physical universe only. This is al least how I understand it. I believe this because it is obvious from reading the Holy Bible that God and His spiritual realm already existed. God apparently created all the spiritual things before physical time began. Does anyone underatand this in a different way?
  2. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    26 Aug '12 20:23
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The Holy Bible starts with the beginning of the physical universe only. This is al least how I understand it. I believe this because it is obvious from reading the Holy Bible that God and His spiritual realm already existed. God apparently created all the spiritual things before physical time began. Does anyone underatand this in a different way?
    How are you defining "physical time"?
    Time is a physical quantity ... is that what you mean?

    If so the phrase "before physical time began" can have no meaning.
  3. Standard memberRJHinds
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    26 Aug '12 20:40
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    How are you defining "physical time"?
    [b]Time
    is a physical quantity ... is that what you mean?

    If so the phrase "before physical time began" can have no meaning.[/b]
    Yes, since time as we know, like days, months, years, require physical objects in order to measure it. If there exists any other kind of time, we have no way to know or measure it. Genesis says God made the sun, moon, stars so we could measure seasons, etc. Spiritual time, if there exists such a thing, is beyond our ability to measure.
  4. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    26 Aug '12 20:471 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The Holy Bible starts with the beginning of the physical universe only. This is al least how I understand it. I believe this because it is obvious from reading the Holy Bible that God and His spiritual realm already existed. God apparently created all the spiritual things before physical time began. Does anyone underatand this in a different way?
    Is the concept of 'before time' coherent?
  5. Standard memberRJHinds
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    26 Aug '12 21:14
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Is the concept of 'before time' coherent?
    It may not be. However, I am referring to any possible existence before time, as we know it, could be measured in a physical way or God gives the prophets information about time measurements. There may be time in the spiritual realm that we have no knowledge of because both God and spirit creatures existed before the physical heavens and the earth were created. But there seems to be evidence in the holy Bible of a spiritual Heaven where God and His spiritual creations existed before the beginning mentioned in Genesis.
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    26 Aug '12 23:52
    "First God made heaven & earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters. And God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light."

    Like a magician?
    oh no, like a tricky guy?
    let there be light!!!! or let there be some cruelty? and misery and hunger and pain and suffering and and and death.
    there is no real point here but what if this beginning was different?
    holy bible... it's a nice book, ... like a movie, you never know what is the truth behind the words................................
  7. Standard memberRJHinds
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    27 Aug '12 01:15
    Originally posted by johnny09
    "First God made heaven & earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters. And God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light."

    Like a magician?
    oh no, like a tricky guy?
    let there be light!!!! or let there be some cruelty? and misery and hunger and ...[text shortened]... a movie, you never know what is the truth behind the words................................
    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (Genesis 1:1 NKJV)

    I believe this refers to the two heavens outside the earth. That is the sky that contains the atmosphere and outer space that contain the moon, sun, and stars. The Apostle Paul mentions a third heaven and I believe he is referring to the spiritual Heaven where God's throne and spiritual creatures are. I understand that many people do not believe in the truth of the Holy Bible. But I am considering the possibility of what it means to tell us.
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    27 Aug '12 18:58
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The Holy Bible starts with the beginning of the physical universe only. This is al least how I understand it. I believe this because it is obvious from reading the Holy Bible that God and His spiritual realm already existed. God apparently created all the spiritual things before physical time began. Does anyone underatand this in a different way?
    Yes your pretty much right there. But what would the spiritual things be or include?
  9. Standard memberRemoved
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    27 Aug '12 22:41
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The Holy Bible starts with the beginning of the physical universe only. This is al least how I understand it. I believe this because it is obvious from reading the Holy Bible that God and His spiritual realm already existed. God apparently created all the spiritual things before physical time began. Does anyone underatand this in a different way?
    You are correct as far as I understand it. The bible has little info here, but it does mention the revolt with Lucifer elsewhere, Ezekiel I believe. There are theories that God created the heavens and the Earth, then I believe the revolt occurred. That is why the earth was without form and void, etc. The words without form, etc., are "tohu va bohu if I remember correctly from a class I took many years ago. The words mean in vain or confusion. Since the bible says God does not create in vain, it happened after creation. In this class I remember the teacher saying that the verse in Genesis "the earth was without form..." is erroneous because there was no word for "was" in aramaic. The better translation is "became" without form, etc." This is an opinion that many follow. I have not taken a position one way or another, just thought I would throw it out there for discussion.
  10. Standard memberKellyJay
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    27 Aug '12 22:45
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The Holy Bible starts with the beginning of the physical universe only. This is al least how I understand it. I believe this because it is obvious from reading the Holy Bible that God and His spiritual realm already existed. God apparently created all the spiritual things before physical time began. Does anyone underatand this in a different way?
    I'm not sure I'd agree with that statement mainly, because it does not say
    that was the case. You are assuming a lot there, you might be right, but there
    isn't anything there to support it. The beginning starts out this way,

    Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

    The Heavens were created at the same time as the earth, but the physical took
    a little longer due to the details we were given. We may not have been given
    the details on what was going on in the Heaven's creation like we were the
    physical universe since we were not to spend time there at our beginning like
    we were the physical universe so it didn't concern us.
    Kelly
  11. Standard memberRJHinds
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    28 Aug '12 00:032 edits
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    You are correct as far as I understand it. The bible has little info here, but it does mention the revolt with Lucifer elsewhere, Ezekiel I believe. There are theories that God created the heavens and the Earth, then I believe the revolt occurred. That is why the earth was without form and void, etc. The words without form, etc., are "tohu va bohu if I r n a position one way or another, just thought I would throw it out there for discussion.
    I do not agree with your teacher. I believe it is describing the Earth in the unfinshed condition when the land was completely covered with water and void of any living thing. The Earth is NOT described as being good and then being bad, because God did not finish it on that first day. For it was not until the third day that God made the dry land appear by gathering the waters into one place and God saw it was good, because now it had form. Then on that same day God made plant life and the Earth was no longer formless and void of living things and God saw it was good.

    HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord!
  12. Standard memberRJHinds
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    28 Aug '12 00:11
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I'm not sure I'd agree with that statement mainly, because it does not say
    that was the case. You are assuming a lot there, you might be right, but there
    isn't anything there to support it. The beginning starts out this way,

    Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

    The Heavens were created at the same time as the earth, but t ...[text shortened]... there at our beginning like
    we were the physical universe so it didn't concern us.
    Kelly
    We were not given the details of the spiritual creations of God in this account, because this account is beginning with the physical creations of God. The spiritual creations of God were already completed when this account begins. I see no other way to read it.
  13. Subscribersonhouse
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    28 Aug '12 00:34
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    We were not given the details of the spiritual creations of God in this account, because this account is beginning with the physical creations of God. The spiritual creations of God were already completed when this account begins. I see no other way to read it.
    Amazing how you discuss this stuff almost like it was real instead of fairy tales for the weak.
  14. Standard memberRJHinds
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    28 Aug '12 00:45
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Yes your pretty much right there. But what would the spiritual things be or include?
    These spitual things would include things like the Kingdom of God in Heaven, God's throne, cherubim, seraphim, angels, Hell, Lucifer or Satan and demons.
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    28 Aug '12 00:48
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Amazing how you discuss this stuff almost like it was real instead of fairy tales for the weak.
    Well some people discuss Star Trek and evolution almost like it is real too. So what?
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