Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard memberKellyJayonline
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    13 Mar '19 02:31
    Genesis 1 English Standard Version (ESV)
    In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

    I've asked this before.
    Some believe in a steady state universe.
    Some believe the universe created itself out of nothing.
    Some believe in this that or the other things.

    With cause (defend your belief) can anyone come up with a reason for everything?
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    13 Mar '19 02:40
    @kellyjay said
    Genesis 1 English Standard Version (ESV)
    In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

    I've asked this before.
    Some believe in a steady state universe.
    Some believe the universe created itself out of nothing.
    Some believe in this that or the other things.

    With cause (defend your belief) can anyone come up with a reason for everything?
    Some believe the universe created itself out of nothing.

    I know of no one who believes this. IIRC you've repeatedly made this claim in the past and have been repeatedly corrected. If that's the case, how do you justify your dishonesty to yourself?
  3. SubscriberFMF
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    13 Mar '19 02:48
    @kellyjay said
    With cause (defend your belief) can anyone come up with a reason for everything?
    What do you mean by "a reason"?

    It seems to me, by using that word, you seek to restrict the discussion to the reiteration of religious-type theories about the "intent" of some kind of supernatural being.

    If so, then who is it you want to have that discussion with here? Fellow creationists?

    You should define what you mean by "a reason" in this context.
  4. Stargazing
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    13 Mar '19 03:011 edit
    @kellyjay said
    Genesis 1 English Standard Version (ESV)
    In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

    I've asked this before.
    Some believe in a steady state universe.
    Some believe the universe created itself out of nothing.
    Some believe in this that or the other things.

    With cause (defend your belief) can anyone come up with a reason for everything?
    Using galactic counts the Hubble sphere has been estimated to have a mass-energy in the range of 1.5 x 10^53 kg, which is a lot of stuff, but apparently not much when compared to the size of the universe, in fact nearer a perfect vacuum than anything artificially created on earth. (Ref Quora)

    But still if we consider E = mc^2 (energy = mass x speed of light squared) like all equations is reversible to (speed of light squared x mass = energy) then I suppose all that mass (1.5 x 10^53 kg), must have been produced by an awful lot of energy.

    Assuming my layperson’s physics principles are correct we could propose that God shot a bolt of mega-lightening into the void which resulted in it being explosively converted into mass and stretched out across an ever increasing space time continuum.

    Or it could be like a perpetual expansion and collapse, like this:

    https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/mt/2018/02/BigBounce_2880x1220/lead_960.gif?1517608670

    So we can look at it and say “well creation is simply a matter of being able to control sufficient energy to convert it into mass” or one could say “we just don’t know”.
  5. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    13 Mar '19 08:27
    @kellyjay said
    Genesis 1 English Standard Version (ESV)
    In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

    I've asked this before.
    Some believe in a steady state universe.
    Some believe the universe created itself out of nothing.
    Some believe in this that or the other things.

    With cause (defend your belief) can anyone come up with a reason for everything?
    Please specify one person here who believes the universe created itself out of nothing.
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    13 Mar '19 08:34
    @Ghost-of-a-Duke

    Please specify one person here who believes the universe created itself out of nothing.


    I think you do when what you propose is closely examined.
  7. Standard membersonship
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    13 Mar '19 08:423 edits
    There are two major In the beginning[s] in the word of God.

    Genesis 1:1
    &
    John 1:1

    But they are not the same.
    Genesis 1:1 is the beginning of the creation of the heavens and the earth, ie the universe.

    "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (Gen 1:1)

    The "beginning" in John 1:1 is different. That is the, lets say, the beginning WITHOUT a beginning. That is eternity.

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. " (John 1:1)

    That is a human language limitation. It expresses eternity. It expresses without beginning - ever existing.

    Remember the there is in the Bible the beginning of the universe. And there is an eternal life without beginning - God, even the Triune God.
  8. Standard memberKellyJayonline
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    13 Mar '19 09:32
    No takers, no one has a reason for why they believe what they do, and don't even want to admit what they think?
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    13 Mar '19 09:45
    @kellyjay said
    No takers, no one has a reason for why they believe what they do, and don't even want to admit what they think?
    You should define what you mean by "a reason" in this context.
  10. SubscriberFMF
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    13 Mar '19 09:47
    @sonship said
    I think you do when what you propose is closely examined.
    I think you should examine more closely what Ghost of a Duke believes and not engage in this sophistry.
  11. Stargazing
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    13 Mar '19 09:49
    @kellyjay said
    No takers, no one has a reason for why they believe what they do, and don't even want to admit what they think?
    What are you trying to achieve. Do you think your question has some sort of nuanced incision into the already threadbare debate on this topic of how did the universe come into existence?

    Theists, especially Christians believe God created everything, atheists don’t.
  12. SubscriberFMF
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    13 Mar '19 09:53
    @kellyjay said
    No takers, no one has a reason for why they believe what they do, and don't even want to admit what they think?
    To use a metaphor, half way down page 1, this comes across as a premature ejaculation.
  13. Stargazing
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    13 Mar '19 09:57
    @fmf said
    To use a metaphor, half way down page 1, this comes across as a premature ejaculation.
    Stop confusing KellyJay with metaphors.
  14. SubscriberFMF
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    13 Mar '19 09:581 edit
    @divegeester said
    What are you trying to achieve. Do you think your question has some sort of nuanced incision into the already threadbare debate on this topic of how did the universe come into existence?

    Theists, especially Christians believe God created everything, atheists don’t.
    The "reason" why "God" created the universe appears to be, according to many Christians, to set up a kind of laboratory for inherently evil and wicked creatures he has created, a laboratory which "He" uses to figure out which ones "He" is going to torture for not believing "He" had set up the laboratory.
  15. Stargazing
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    13 Mar '19 09:59
    @fmf said
    The "reason" why "God" created the universe, according to many Christians, appears to be to set up a kind of laboratory for inherently evil and wicked creatures which "He" uses to figure out which ones "He" is going to torture for not believing "He" had set up the laboratory.
    That interpretation goes strongly against my moral compass.

    Darn it, more metaphors...
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