Inclusive or Exclusive?

A poster said this in another thread:

"Christains, J.W. [jehovahs witness] and everyone else on earth. The Father's Children. All of us!"

As a stand alone statement would any Chrisitans accept this?

If it needs qualifying, then what scriptures, biblical precedents and parables would you cite to support your position?

Note: this not me setting up a JW debate, however their invited contribution in this thread will inevitably bring their organisation into the mix. I'm interested in all views on where you feel the inclusion/exclusion line needs to be drawn; for an obvious example: the deity of Christ? For a less obvious one, the parable of the sheep and the goats as mentioned by twhitehead in the OSAS thread?

Originally posted by divegeester
A poster said this in another thread:

[b]"Christains, J.W. [jehovahs witness] and everyone else on earth. The Father's Children. All of us!"

As a stand alone statement would any Chrisitans accept this?

If it needs qualifying, then what scriptures, biblical precedents and parables would you cite to support your position?

Note: this not me ...[text shortened]... vious one, the parable of the sheep and the goats as mentioned by twhitehead in the OSAS thread?[/b]

I think it is obvious that we are all in a broad sense the Father's children as God created all of mankind to be his children. However in the New Testament Christ and the Apostles differentiated between 'children of God' and 'children of the devil'. John said it clearly in 1 John chapter 3:


Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you. We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. (1 John 3:1-24 KJV)

It should be clear from this passage that what separates children of God from children of the devil is sin.

Originally posted by divegeester
A poster said this in another thread:

[b]"Christains, J.W. [jehovahs witness] and everyone else on earth. The Father's Children. All of us!"

As a stand alone statement would any Chrisitans accept this?

If it needs qualifying, then what scriptures, biblical precedents and parables would you cite to support your position?

Note: this not me ...[text shortened]... vious one, the parable of the sheep and the goats as mentioned by twhitehead in the OSAS thread?[/b]

Sounds like something i stated in another thread.

Where does it not state it in scripture?

The message of Christ was for everyone, not just the Jews. You can see that for yourself by the Centurian seeking Jesus to heal his servant.

Paul also states, "Those who know the law will be judged by the law, and those who do not know the law, will be judged by the law written in their hearts.".

Originally posted by Rajk999
I think it is obvious that we are all in a broad sense the Father's children as God created all of mankind to be his children. However in the New Testament Christ and the Apostles differentiated between 'children of God' and 'children of the devil'. John said it clearly in 1 John chapter 3:


[i]Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us ...[text shortened]... ear from this passage that what separates children of God from children of the devil is sin.[/b]

What separates us from God is our sin. That is why it is important to repent daily.

Originally posted by Pudgenik
What separates us from God is our sin. That is why it is important to repent daily.

Agreed, repent and follow Christ words of " .. go an sin no more.." as best as we can. Solomon said:

Pro 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

1.John 8:44
Your father is the devil. You belong to him. You want to do what he wants. He was a murderer from the beginning. He was always against the truth. There is no truth in him. He is like the lies he tells. Yes, the devil is a liar. He is the father of lies.

I do think Jesus looks at us as in or out of God's grace and mercy, this is
not saying Jesus isn't open to receive us all, but we are not automatically
in God's grace and mercy.
Kelly

Originally posted by Pudgenik
Where does it not state it in scripture?

Did you really ask that?

Originally posted by KellyJay
1.John 8:44
Your father is the devil. You belong to him. You want to do what he wants. He was a murderer from the beginning. He was always against the truth. There is no truth in him. He is like the lies he tells. Yes, the devil is a liar. He is the father of lies.

I do think Jesus looks at us as in or out of God's grace and mercy, this is
not saying ...[text shortened]... sus isn't open to receive us all, but we are not automatically
in God's grace and mercy.
Kelly

I was thinking of your first scripture also.

Originally posted by divegeester
A poster said this in another thread:

[b]"Christains, J.W. [jehovahs witness] and everyone else on earth. The Father's Children. All of us!"

As a stand alone statement would any Chrisitans accept this?

If it needs qualifying, then what scriptures, biblical precedents and parables would you cite to support your position?

Note: this not me ...[text shortened]... vious one, the parable of the sheep and the goats as mentioned by twhitehead in the OSAS thread?[/b]

I don't think God looks at religious sects or ethnic groups, he see's us as "saints" or "aint's".
There are two groups, those that believe on the Lord Jesus and those that do not.
Acts 16:30-32
30 And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."
NKJV


I no longer believe it is sin that separates God from people, because the sin problem has been dealt with in the person of Jesus Christ.
What separates God from people is unbelief.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
..I no longer believe it is sin that separates God from people, ...
What separates God from people is unbelief.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil.

Satan believes in God as well.

Originally posted by Rajk999
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil.

Satan believes in God as well.

To believe on the Son of God is not just believing he exists. It is submitting to him as Lord.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
To believe on the Son of God is not just believing he exists. It is submitting to him as Lord.

Exactly .. now we getting somewhere. Belief is just a word.
Satan believes but does not submit.
Saying 'I believe' without doing anything else or continuing on in sin is hypocrisy and is not submission either.
Submitting to Christ means following his commandments; not just saying 'I submit' or 'I believe' with ones mouth.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. (James 4:7-8 KJV)

Do you get the impression that James is talking about unbelief separating a person from God. Obviously James is referring to SIN as the reason for the separation between God and man.

Belief means Submission.
Submission means obedience.
Obedience means keeping away from sin.

Any so-called 'belief' which still includes sin means 'unbelief'. So if a Christian claims to believe and continues on with a sinful lifestyle then he just one of the children of the devil and not of God.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I don't think God looks at religious sects or ethnic groups, he see's us as "saints" or "aint's".
There are two groups, those that believe on the Lord Jesus and those that do not.
[b]Acts 16:30-32
30 And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you ...[text shortened]... has been dealt with in the person of Jesus Christ.
What separates God from people is unbelief.

"I no longer believe it is sin that separates God from people, because the sin problem has been dealt with in the person of Jesus Christ. What separates God from people is unbelief."... which rejects God's offer of reconciliation to Himself. Thanks.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I don't think God looks at religious sects or ethnic groups, he see's us as "saints" or "aint's".
There are two groups, those that believe on the Lord Jesus and those that do not.
[b]Acts 16:30-32
30 And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you ...[text shortened]... has been dealt with in the person of Jesus Christ.
What separates God from people is unbelief.

I think obeying God has more to do with it than unbelief, we see more
than a few warnings about people needing to obey, to not get entangled
in sin and over come than we do believers walking in unbelief. I'll be
willing to look at scripture to see how you came to that, belief. 🙂
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I think obeying God has more to do with it than unbelief, we see more
than a few warnings about people needing to obey, to not get entangled
in sin and over come than we do believers walking in unbelief. I'll be
willing to look at scripture to see how you came to that, belief. 🙂
Kelly

"What separates God from people is unbelief." -checkbaiter Disobedience isn't an issue for those who have refused relationship with God; they can't obey someone they don't even know. Obedience applies to Members of His Royal Family.