Income inequality and spirituality

Originally posted by sonhouse
One company I used to work for, Lucent, was hiring by the thousands in '97.
We were going great guns, they had these catered lunches with lobster and a band playing and such.

Then the train ran into the cliff and in '99 we were all laid off. I was fortunate in that I met the wife of Alex Paunescu, whom I worked with in Israel at Intel.

It turned ou ...[text shortened]... ars when it went to about 1 dollar a share.

I think that also qualifies as income inequality.

I'm glad you were in the right place at the right time!

I am not talking about cheating or a dishonest means to get over as far as
income goes. I'm talking about those that earn a wage or income on a level
playing field. I get some will lie and cheat to get over, that in my mind is not
income inequality, that is lying and cheating.

Had everything been done above board, than those that got richer will have
broken no laws or taken advantage to the hurt of others would you still
think it was wrong that some have more than others?
Kelly

Originally posted by sonhouse
One company I used to work for, Lucent, was hiring by the thousands in '97.
We were going great guns, they had these catered lunches with lobster and a band playing and such.

Then the train ran into the cliff and in '99 we were all laid off. I was fortunate in that I met the wife of Alex Paunescu, whom I worked with in Israel at Intel.

It turned ou ...[text shortened]... ars when it went to about 1 dollar a share.

I think that also qualifies as income inequality.

Couldn't you have given your friend some inside advice on not to buy the stock? Or perhaps they should have researched more thoroughly before investing.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Income is income, if you love money and want to make that the measure of
yourself, than earning more is the way to do it.

Would you describe the need for money in the lives of people who work full time but earn scarcely a living wage as "love" of money?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I am not talking about cheating or a dishonest means to get over as far as income goes. I'm talking about those that earn a wage or income on a level playing field.

What about someone whose income [profit] is very large due in no small part to the fact that he is paying infra-human wages to [some of the] people he employs ~ people who basically have no choice to accept such low pay because they live in complete poverty? What bearing does your spiritual mind map have upon your viewpoint regarding this kind of scenario?

Originally posted by FMF
Would you describe the need for money in the lives of people who work full time but earn scarcely a living wage as "love" of money?

If you are earning a wage that meets all your needs you are doing well if you
are content. The love of money can happen if you have millions or billions or
just enough to get by. You can have more than enough to 'get by' and not
be content.
Kelly

Originally posted by FMF
What about someone whose income [profit] is very large due in no small part to the fact that he is paying infra-human wages to [some of the] people he employs ~ people who basically have no choice to accept such low pay because they live in complete poverty? What bearing does your spiritual mind map have upon your viewpoint regarding this kind of scenario?

If you want to inject something that isn't a level playing field, than we have
left the discussion about money and have moved on to how some have setup
a means to get over on someone else. Those are two different topics.
Kelly

Originally posted by FMF
What bearing does your spiritual mind map have upon your viewpoint on widening and narrowing income gaps in the world today?

I am atheist, and fairly socialist. I am not sure if there is any relationship between the two in my case. I think my family are fairly socialist, even though they are Christian, but I haven't actually discussed it much with them so I am not sure how we compare.
I do notice on this site that YECs tend to be on the 'far right' and the most socialists tend to be atheist. But I don't know if this correlation is causal in any way or just a product of the fact that most YECs are from the US and many of the atheists are from Europe.
I also suspect that education has an effect on politics as well as spirituality.

Originally posted by KellyJay
If you want to inject something that isn't a level playing field, than we have
left the discussion about money and have moved on to how some have setup
a means to get over on someone else. Those are two different topics.
Kelly

Differences in money inherently creates a non-level playing field in a variety of ways.
For this reason, level playing fields are virtually non-existent.

Originally posted by KellyJay
If you want to inject something that isn't a level playing field, than we have
left the discussion about money and have moved on to how some have setup
a means to get over on someone else. Those are two different topics.
Kelly

I highly recommend this course:
https://www.edx.org/course/harvardx/harvardx-er22-1x-justice-1408
I guarantee you will come out of it with very different views.

Originally posted by KellyJay
If you want to inject something that isn't a level playing field, than we have
left the discussion about money and have moved on to how some have setup
a means to get over on someone else. Those are two different topics.

Two different topics? Not so. We are talking about 'income inequality'. So it stands to reason that our discussion will touch upon how it comes about and what our 'spiritual' [or philosophical] reactions are to it and its causes. We are still talking about "money" but I don't see why we have to talk about it in a vacuum.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Those are two different topics.

They are not "different topics". So, once again, someone has earnings that are partly as big as they are because he pays infrahuman wages to employees who have no choice but to accept them because of their poverty. Absolutely nothing wrong with this arrangement from the free market point of view ~ both parties are free to engage each other or not, as the case may be. Does your spiritual mind map diverge from your free market philosophy over a scenario like this?

Originally posted by FMF
The topic here is 'income inequality'. The topic is not 'income equality' ~ nobody significant or serious minded is proposing that "everyone should make the same amount of money" ~ but, instead, we are addressing the problem of 'income inequality'. What bearing does your spiritual mind map have upon your viewpoint on widening and narrowing income gaps in the world today?

I don't think the Christian should have any issue with income inequality, after all they are counseled to 'flee from riches', and 'to be content with sustenance and covering'. Indeed excessive riches may even be seen as a burden on the possessor of those riches and Christ did say it would be extremely difficult for a possessor of riches to enter into the Kingdom of the heavens. Its simply another manifestation of the inequality of the system where one person seeks to dominate another, to the detriment of both.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I don't think the Christian should have any issue with income inequality, after all they are counseled to 'flee from riches', and 'to be content with sustenance and covering'. Indeed excessive riches may even be seen as a burden on the possessor of those riches and Christ did say it would be extremely difficult for a possessor of riches to enter into the Kingdom of the heavens.

This is an interesting point.

How do yo think "excessive riches" should be defined or explained? For example is a home with more than one spare bedroom to be considered "excessive"? What about several sets of spare clothes? A few thousand in savings in the bank? Etc...

Similarly, do you think higher education with the wider objective of bettering oneself commercially is something to be dissuaded against?

Originally posted by FMF
Two different topics? Not so. We are talking about 'income inequality'. So it stands to reason that our discussion will touch upon how it comes about and what our 'spiritual' [or philosophical] reactions are to it and its causes. We are still talking about "money" but I don't see why we have to talk about it in a vacuum.

They are different topics!
One is all about how much one has and another does not.
The other is some cheat to get over.
If it wealth is earned honestly, than one having more either is or is not
bad or wrong. If it is gotten through deceit, through cheating, through
some means of making sure the playing field isn't level, than that deceit,
cheating, or whatever was used to make the playing field not level is
the topic.

Are you suggesting that no one can have more than another other than
through some dishonest method so it is all one and the same issue?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
The other is some cheat to get over.

No it isn't. The "other" thing I mentioned was a scenario in which there was a straight forward application of free market principles ~ a political/economic philosophy I assume you subscribe to judging by some of your posts over the years. The employer was not a "cheat" in the scenario I described, unless your spiritual mind map makes you think he is...? What do you think?