Income inequality and spirituality

Originally posted by FMF
They are not "different topics". So, once again, someone has earnings that are partly as big as they are because he pays infrahuman wages to employees who have no choice but to accept them because of their poverty. Absolutely nothing wrong with this arrangement from the free market point of view ~ both parties are free to engage each other or not, as the case ma ...[text shortened]... Does your spiritual mind map diverge from your free market philosophy over a scenario like this?

Unless you are telling me people are slaves and they are getting wages
no one is getting forced.

Almost every company is going to try to make as much money as it can
while doing it as cheaply as possible, for the profit. If they were not at
all making a profit, they will not be doing what they are doing very long.

People will go to whatever place they can get work to make as much
money as possible for their time, if they get a better job for more money
they will go to it.

This forced to do anything because there is no choice, that is not a level
playing field.

If your complaint is only about those who are forced to work for less,
than why did you label this thread "Income inequality and spirituality"
it should have been, "Forced labor is it wrong!"
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Are you suggesting that no one can have more than another other than
through some dishonest method so it is all one and the same issue?

No, of course I'm not "suggesting that no one can have more than another" nor am I suggesting that inequality is necessarily the result of dishonesty. To think such a thing would be plain daft. What "dishonesty" did you perceive there to be in the scenario I gave you? Here it is again:

Someone has earnings that are partly as big as they are because he pays infrahuman wages to employees who have no choice but to accept them because of their poverty.

I deliberately did not insert a "dishonest" element into this scenario. It is more or less a 'free market reality'. What does your spiritual side think of it?

Originally posted by FMF
No it isn't. The "other" thing I mentioned was a scenario in which there was a straight forward application of free market principles ~ a political/economic philosophy I assume you subscribe to judging by some of your posts over the years. The employer was not a "cheat" in the scenario I described, unless your spiritual mind map makes you think he is...? What do you think?

As I said, unless everyone has a say, no one is being forced. If there is
only one place to work, well....would you have that place shut down
instead of offering the work? I recall awhile back that did happen, some
plant was paying very low wages making something for an American
company. The media found out, and everyone lost their jobs, which
meant instead of low wages they now have none.

The real answer to their low wages would be get more companies putting
up plants there. So the demand for workers grows, causing the wages
to rise. You take away all the companies, you get what is left over.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Unless you are telling me people are slaves and they are getting wages
no one is getting forced.

Yes, I already made the point that "no one is getting forced". That is part of the scenario. The fact "no one is getting forced" makes it fine by 'political free market standards' but does the fact "no one is getting forced" make it fine for you as a Christian?

Originally posted by FMF
No, of course I'm not "suggesting that no one can have more than another" nor am I suggesting that inequality is necessarily the result of dishonesty. To think such a thing would be plain daft. What "dishonesty" did you perceive there to be in the scenario I gave you? Here it is again:

[b]Someone has earnings that are partly as big as they are because he pays ...[text shortened]... scenario. It is more or less a 'free market reality'. What does your spiritual side think of it?

How do you define "infrahuman wages"?
Kelly

Originally posted by FMF
Yes, I already made the point that "no one is getting forced". That is part of the scenario. The fact "no one is getting forced" makes it fine by 'political free market standards' but does the fact "no one is getting forced" make it fine for you as a Christian?

If I offer a job for so much money, and someone takes it, that is an
agreement. If I force someone too, that is not an agreement.
Kelly

Originally posted by FMF
Yes, I already made the point that "no one is getting forced". That is part of the scenario. The fact "no one is getting forced" makes it fine by 'political free market standards' but does the fact "no one is getting forced" make it fine for you as a Christian?

"people who basically have no choice to accept such low pay because .."

If they have no choice what is that, force?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
As I said, unless everyone has a say, no one is being forced. If there is
only one place to work, well....would you have that place shut down
instead of offering the work?

I am not asking for your solutions. I am asking whether for you, on a spiritual level ~ as a Christian ~ it's OK for someone to be paying infrahuman wages to people in poverty [meaning they may have to borrow money from loan sharks, their kids may not be able to go to school, they may have to be subsidized by relatives, who may also be poor, and perhaps leading to all manner of social ills] as long as "no one is being forced"? That's a political stance on your part or a spiritual stance?

Originally posted by FMF
Yes, I already made the point that "no one is getting forced". That is part of the scenario. The fact "no one is getting forced" makes it fine by 'political free market standards' but does the fact "no one is getting forced" make it fine for you as a Christian?

"people who basically have no choice to accept such low pay because ..."
You take away choice you've force them, or what do you call that?
Kelly

Originally posted by FMF
I am not asking for your solutions. I am asking whether for you, on a spiritual level ~ as a Christian ~ it's OK for someone to be paying infrahuman wages to people in poverty [meaning they may have to borrow money from loan sharks, their kids may not be able to go to school, they may have to be subsidized by relatives, who may also be poor, and perhaps leading ...[text shortened]... long as "no one is being forced"? That's a political stance on your part or a spiritual stance?

"infrahuman wages" please define that for me, what do you mean when
you say that!!?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
"people who basically have no choice to accept such low pay because .."

If they have no choice what is that, force?

They have the "choice" between no wages at all and infrahuman wages ~ meaning wages that don't cover even just the basic minimal costs of survival.

Originally posted by KellyJay
"infrahuman wages" please define that for me, what do you mean when
you say that!!?

Did you not read the post of mine you were responding to?

Originally posted by KellyJay
"people who basically have no choice to accept such low pay because ..."
You take away choice you've force them, or what do you call that?

You don't believe that abject poverty can be a coercive 'market force'?

Originally posted by FMF
You don't believe that abject poverty can be a coercive 'market force'?

Yes, it is.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
If I offer a job for so much money, and someone takes it, that is an
agreement. If I force someone too, that is not an agreement.

What if you offer $1 a day to someone who has $0, but the $1 won't keep them alive for long ~ but you know there are others that have $0? How would you see your "agreement" to offer only $1 through the prism of your spiritual mind map?