Ingredients, tools, mechanical drawings

KellyJay

Truth is Absolute

Spirituality

19 Apr 23 10:06

diver

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20 Apr 23 05:30

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Suzianne

Misfit Queen

Isle of Misfit Toys

Joined: 08 Aug 03
Moves: 37689

20 Apr 23 05:30

@fmf said
KellyJay's opinion about God my be correct but as long as he cannot demonstrate that God's existence is an objective empirical fact, his belief remains a subjective opinion. I had you pegged as a Christian who understands what faith is.

Arguing the merits of logic (even when taking a devil's advocate stance) does not ipso facto suggest that I do not know what faith is. So please do not insult my intelligence here. (I understand it's far more likely that you are simply attempting to score cheap internet brownie points.)

Suzianne

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20 Apr 23 05:33

-Removed-

In case you missed the conversation being held in this very thread, IF God is real, then "God is real" is an objective fact.

Regardless your attempts to play KellyJay as some sort of bumbling fool.

diver

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20 Apr 23 05:38

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diver

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20 Apr 23 05:39

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FMF

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20 Apr 23 05:39

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@suzianne said
Arguing the merits of logic (even when taking a devil's advocate stance) does not ipso facto suggest that I do not know what faith is. So please do not insult my intelligence here. (I understand it's far more likely that you are simply attempting to score cheap internet brownie points.)

Like KellyJay, you are conflating the meaning of subjectivity and objectivity. Even IF God is real, KellyJay's opinion that he is real is subjective. I did not bring up the issue of your intelligence, you did

FMF

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20 Apr 23 05:46

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@suzianne said
In case you missed the conversation being held in this very thread, IF God is real, then "God is real" is an objective fact.

KellyJay is not saying "if". He is stating that God is real. This is a subjective opinion until the objectivity of the claim that "God is real" is demonstrated to be true.

Presumably once we die, at which point it may or may not be established as true.

If "God is true" were an objective truth, that would negate the claims that you have been making about free will here for over a decade.

Oblation Ants

Ants of Oblation

Joined: 21 Nov 08
Moves: 2327

21 Apr 23 04:47

I'm not sure it's all mechanical; certainly though, given structural quality and the unity of scripture on the subject, the fact a temple drawing plan is included in sacred writings yields significance to a consecrated work or in general purposes of going into architecture.

Suzianne

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21 Apr 23 04:52

@fmf said

If "God is true" were an objective truth, that would negate the claims that you have been making about free will here for over a decade.

And that's why we can't have proof of concept.

A thing can easily be true without proof.

True or false, it's your call to make, only for yourself. That is free will.

FMF

Joined: 28 Oct 05
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21 Apr 23 05:05

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@suzianne said
And that's why we can't have proof of concept.

A thing can easily be true without proof.

True or false, it's your call to make, only for yourself. That is free will.

You are talking about subjectivity and not objectivity.

FMF

Joined: 28 Oct 05
Moves: 34587

21 Apr 23 05:08

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@suzianne said
And that's why we can't have proof of concept.A thing can easily be true without proof.True or false, it's your call to make, only for yourself. That is free will.

There can be proof that something is true AND free will in terms of whether to obey the instructions stemming from that truth. They are not mutually exclusive.

diver