1. Standard memberCalJust
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    21 Jan '14 10:271 edit
    One claim that is frequently made by creationists (especially Young Earth Creationists) is that evolution is rejected by Christians as being at best anti-God and at worst designed by the devil.

    This statement is demonstrably false, since there are many Christians who accept that the ToE best explains the current diversity of life on earth.

    One prominent example of such Christians is Francis Collins, at one time leader of the Human Genome Project, an outstanding scientist and Christian, and also evolutionist.

    There are many other examples, (myself included) but only one would suffice to disprove the originally stated belief.

    The only way that one could still cling to the opening statement is to say that Francis Collins (and many others) are not Christians at all, but that would open up an entirely new debate.

    As a general rule, YECs base their beliefs on a literal interpretation of the Bible, specifically the first chapters in Genesis.

    However, in a recent thread (How did Jesus interpret the Bible?) RJH,(who, in his discussion of "evilution", constantly repeats the claim that Christians don't accept this branch of science) admitted that scripture should be interpreted on cultural and historical grounds.

    Genesis 1 is a beautiful poem, but a poem nonetheless. It carries the key message that God is the origin of everything, and that what he made was good. It cannot, and should not, be taken as a literal scientific discourse.

    I'm glad that we have got that sorted out now.
  2. Standard memberRJHinds
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    21 Jan '14 10:341 edit
    Originally posted by CalJust
    One claim that is frequently made by creationists (especially Young Earth Creationists) is that [b]evolution is rejected by Christians as being at best anti-God and at worst designed by the devil.

    This statement is demonstrably false, since there are many Christians who accept that the ToE best explains the current diversity of life on earth.

    One p ...[text shortened]... t, be taken as a literal scientific discourse.

    I'm glad that we have got that sorted out now.[/b]
    You can find poems in the Psalms, but not in Genesis.
  3. Standard memberCalJust
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    21 Jan '14 10:391 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    You can find poems in the Psalms, but not in Genesis.
    Is that your only response?

    How would you comment on Francis Collins being both a highly accomplished and recognised scientist, well-known Christian author - and evolutionist?

    Edit: btw, if you think there are no other poems in Genesis, then you have never read the book!
  4. Standard memberRJHinds
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    21 Jan '14 10:461 edit
    Originally posted by CalJust
    Is that your only response?

    How would you comment on Francis Collins being both a highly accomplished and recognised scientist, well-known Christian author - and evolutionist?

    Edit: btw, if you think there are no other poems in Genesis, then you have never read the book!
    Genesis Is History, Not Poetry: Exposing Hidden Assumptions about What Hebrew Poetry Is and Is Not

    For those who know better, it is intellectual dishonesty to avoid the obvious truth that Genesis is real history. Their most likely motive is a desire to accommodate evolutionary mythology by discounting the real history of our origins, stealing credit from Christ so that a fable called “natural selection” can be credited with “selecting” (and creating) earth’s creatures.

    http://www.icr.org/article/6090/
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    21 Jan '14 12:43
    no
    evolution has nothing to do with christianity, or any religion for that matter.

    even jews, who have the old testament as the main book, understand it shouldn't be taken literally.

    in fact, most christians don't take the old testament seriously. only religious cults such as jehova's witnesses or rjhind's merry band of ignoramuses believe it is crucial for christians to believe in a young earth.
  6. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    21 Jan '14 19:30
    This is what Pope John Paul II had to say;
    "In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII
    has already affirmed that there is no conflict between evolution and
    the doctrine of the faith regarding man and his vocation ...


    source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution

    Apparently both Poe John Paul II and Pius XII were Christians.
  7. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    21 Jan '14 20:45
    Originally posted by CalJust
    One claim that is frequently made by creationists (especially Young Earth Creationists) is that [b]evolution is rejected by Christians as being at best anti-God and at worst designed by the devil.

    This statement is demonstrably false, since there are many Christians who accept that the ToE best explains the current diversity of life on earth.

    One p ...[text shortened]... t, be taken as a literal scientific discourse.

    I'm glad that we have got that sorted out now.[/b]
    They shout louder than the pro-evolutionist theists and mistake that for a majority opinion among theists.
  8. Standard memberHandyAndy
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    21 Jan '14 21:22
    Originally posted by CalJust
    One claim that is frequently made by creationists (especially Young Earth Creationists) is that evolution is rejected by Christians as being at best anti-God and at worst designed by the devil.

    This statement is demonstrably false, since there are many Christians who accept that the ToE best explains the current diversity of life on earth.

    One prominen ...[text shortened]... t, be taken as a literal scientific discourse.

    I'm glad that we have got that sorted out now.
    You made my day, CJ. Thoughtful arguments and reasonable opinions are rare in these parts.
  9. Standard memberRJHinds
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    22 Jan '14 00:412 edits
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    This is what Pope John Paul II had to say;
    "In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII
    has already affirmed that there is no conflict between evolution and
    the doctrine of the faith regarding man and his vocation ...


    source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution

    [b]Apparently both Poe John Paul II and Pius XII were Christians.
    [/b]
    They were merely accepting the new definition of evolution to mean "a change over time" that includes variation in species within a kind over time. They never indorsed the original definition that all the kinds of animals and plants came from one common ancestor because one kind of animal or plant will never produce another kind.

    In my opinion, it is impossible for one to be a Christian and believe in the general theory of evolution, a.k.a. evilution.

    To see what I mean go to the following link:

    EVIL - LUTION - How Embarrassing!

    YouTube
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    22 Jan '14 01:30
    Originally posted by CalJust
    Genesis 1 is a beautiful poem, but a poem nonetheless. It carries the key message that God is the origin of everything, and that what he made was good. It cannot, and should not, be taken as a literal scientific discourse.
    Do you envision God as being so forward-looking that when He was getting Genesis written up, He knew that starting in the 1800s His verbiage was going to cause some schism in the body of Christ over whether it was indeed poetry more than a factual account of natural history?
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    22 Jan '14 03:10
    CalJust,
    Why do you not accept Genesis as creation of part of the universe? If you do not accept that God created "things from nothing", then all of us who believe in creation are not to blame. And the so called, Christian believer, Francis Collins, can be simply lying. Or he could really think he is correct and still be wrong. If he doesn't believe God, then how can he say he has faith in Jesus or God?

    Furthermore, how do you know that more things are not being created now? While it may not be that new planets and bodies are created in space, Christ said that he would prepare a place for his disciples. Evolution doesn't scientifically prove origin, but it does speculate. Diversity doesn't prove origin either. Evolution that does not accept that human, animal, and plant life were created when scripture tells that they were, is against God. God will not lie. KJV - Titus 1: 2, "In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;" If God has lied, then we cannot even depend on Him to do anything for us at all or for this universe.

    King James Version
    ==================
    Genesis 1: 1-31
    Genesis 2: 1-25
    Hebrews 11: 3
    Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

    John 14: 2-3
    -----------------
    In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

    And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

    Colossians 1: 16
    ----------------------
    For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

    The Revelation 4: 11
    ---------------------------
    Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

    The Revelation 10: 6
    ---------------------------
    And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
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    22 Jan '14 03:22
    P.S.
    If there are Christians who say that they accept certain things based on so called "laws" from science, but we as human beings do not accept that Christians can lie just as much as a person who wants to lie constantly, then we are tricking ourselves.

    Why does the bible include writing on people who hold to certain thoughts, but are not really of Christ. Can they be wolves in sheep's clothing? Then what about troubled Christians such as in Galatians.

    Why did Catholics torture other people to get them to accept the teaching of the catholic church? These catholics were supposed to be like Christ.

    Why don't we accept that even Christians can be carnal. KJV - Romans 8: 7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."
  13. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    22 Jan '14 03:50
    Originally posted by RJHinds

    EVIL - LUTION - How Embarrassing!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMdPmKTSXTA
    So there really is someone out there as dumb as you are!!
    And he's contributing to YouTube.
  14. Standard memberKellyJay
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    22 Jan '14 04:35
    Originally posted by CalJust
    One claim that is frequently made by creationists (especially Young Earth Creationists) is that [b]evolution is rejected by Christians as being at best anti-God and at worst designed by the devil.

    This statement is demonstrably false, since there are many Christians who accept that the ToE best explains the current diversity of life on earth.

    One p ...[text shortened]... t, be taken as a literal scientific discourse.

    I'm glad that we have got that sorted out now.[/b]
    I'm a young earth creationist, and I believe in evolution. Anything can be
    used to be anti-God even the Bible. People use almost anything to suit their
    own ends.
    Kelly
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    22 Jan '14 07:46
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I'm a young earth creationist, and I believe in evolution. Anything can be
    used to be anti-God even the Bible. People use almost anything to suit their
    own ends.
    Kelly
    But do you believe your ancestor was a rat? That is what the general theory of evolution teaches. Perhaps you mean you believe in the newer definition of evolution - a change over time - like those two Popes.
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