Originally posted by checkbaiter I believe in God because of the bible.The Bible is the only known religious document with historically verifiable prophecies that have consistently been fulfilled. This point cannot be overstated. That the Bible has dozens of prophecies that can be verified by historians as having been accurately fulfilled is very strong proof that God is its Author. The ...[text shortened]... next few days or weeks. Only God could be the source of the accurate prophecies in the Bible.🙂
Do you and dj2 copy & paste from the same tired sources? I swear I've seen that tripe verbatim from him, too.
Originally posted by David C Understandable, but let me ask you this...have you also investigated the Torah? The Qu'ran? Any religious system other than christianity?
At a fairly basic level only, I confess. Other than Judaism, which I would think I understand reasonably well given that the 'Old Testament' is in fact the Jewish scriptures.
I do understand, though, that the Christian theology of salvation as a gift rather than something earned is a fairly fundamental point of difference. And that's what really attracted me - that God recognized the mess and had a rescue plan. That's the kind of God I want to know.
Originally posted by orfeo At a fairly basic level only, I confess. Other than Judaism, which I would think I understand reasonably well given that the 'Old Testament' is in fact the Jewish scriptures.
I do understand, though, that the Christian theology of salvation as a gift rather than something earned is a fairly fundamental point of difference. And that's what really attrac ...[text shortened]... e - that God recognized the mess and had a rescue plan. That's the kind of God I want to know.
Oh really? I think I would much prefer a god who didn't mess everything up in the first place. Only an incompetant bungler of a god would allow things to deteriorate so badly that he needed a rescue plan. If we're talking about omnipotent gods here, don't you think you would want to aim just a tad higher than that?
Originally posted by rwingett Oh really? I think I would much prefer a god who didn't mess everything up in the first place. Only an incompetant bungler of a god would allow things to deteriorate so badly that he needed a rescue plan. If we're talking about omnipotent gods here, don't you think you would want to aim just a tad higher than that?
Any God that simply denied there was a problem with the world AS IT IS would not be an improvement, no.
I'm not going to get into the whole omnipotence thing. In this thread of all threads, let's just stick to the observable state of the world. The 'omnipotent' god that you're postulating that doesn't allow anything bad to happen clearly doesn't exist. Because bad things happen.
In which case, the alternative is a god who knows bad things happen, but who doesn't give a damn. I think that would be pretty sucky.
Originally posted by orfeo Any God that simply denied there was a problem with the world AS IT IS would not be an improvement, no.
I'm not going to get into the whole omnipotence thing. In this thread of all threads, let's just stick to the observable state of the world. The 'omnipotent' god that you're postulating that doesn't allow anything bad to happen clearly doesn't ex ...[text shortened]... who knows bad things happen, but who doesn't give a damn. I think that would be pretty sucky.
In which case, the alternative is a god who knows bad things happen, but who doesn't give a damn. I think that would be pretty sucky.
But that's what you're clearly left with. A sucky god. The title of this thread should have been "Is (the christian) god a logical contradiction?" In which case the answer would be "yes". No matter how the theist squirms and tries to pass the buck, he cannot reconcile the presence of evil with an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent god. The three "O" god is a logical contradiction that cannot exist. He must lack at least one of the three Os traditionally attributed to him. Maybe all three.
Originally posted by rwingett [b]In which case, the alternative is a god who knows bad things happen, but who doesn't give a damn. I think that would be pretty sucky.
But that's what you're clearly left with. A sucky god. The title of this thread should have been "Is (the christian) god a logical contradiction?" In which case the answer would be "yes". No matter how the t ...[text shortened]... ist. He must lack at least one of the three Os traditionally attributed to him. Maybe all three.[/b]
What amazes me most is it takes an atheist to figure out the obvious.
There must be something wrong in the theists philosophy , It's either evil as the bible describes it doesnt exist or God as the bible describes Him is flawed.
Originally posted by rwingett [b]In which case, the alternative is a god who knows bad things happen, but who doesn't give a damn. I think that would be pretty sucky.
But that's what you're clearly left with. A sucky god. The title of this thread should have been "Is (the christian) god a logical contradiction?" In which case the answer would be "yes". No matter how the t ...[text shortened]... ist. He must lack at least one of the three Os traditionally attributed to him. Maybe all three.[/b]
Because I don't want to fall into the mortal sin of Cut 'n Paste, I suggest a google on "Theodicy" would provide a wide range of philosophical answers to your three "O" question.
Personally I would go for the "free will" theodicy.
Originally posted by rwingett [b]In which case, the alternative is a god who knows bad things happen, but who doesn't give a damn. I think that would be pretty sucky.
But that's what you're clearly left with. A sucky god. The title of this thread should have been "Is (the christian) god a logical contradiction?" In which case the answer would be "yes". No matter how the t ...[text shortened]... ist. He must lack at least one of the three Os traditionally attributed to him. Maybe all three.[/b]
No matter how the theist squirms and tries to pass the buck, he cannot reconcile the presence of evil with an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent god.
So man messes up and then it's God's fault? If I gave you free-will and clearly instructed you on what not to do, would it be my fault if you got yourself into a mess by doing exactly what I told you not to do?
Originally posted by Halitose Because I don't want to fall into the mortal sin of Cut 'n Paste, I suggest a google on "Theodicy" would provide a wide range of philosophical answers to your three "O" question.
It would be a refreshing change from the garbage the theists on this site keep filling up the forums with. I might suggest that you have your theistic accomplices do a little homework themselves. Maybe it would improve the quality of their arguments to the point of semi-coherency.
Originally posted by rwingett The three "O" god is a logical contradiction that cannot exist. He must lack at least one of the three Os traditionally attributed to him. Maybe all three.
Originally posted by dj2becker [b]No matter how the theist squirms and tries to pass the buck, he cannot reconcile the presence of evil with an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent god.
So man messes up and then it's God's fault? If I gave you free-will and clearly instructed you on what not to do, would it be my fault if you got yourself into a mess by doing exactly what I told you not to do?[/b]
Just keep passing the buck, dj. God gets the credit for everything good and man gets the blame for everything bad. Uh huh. I don't think it works that way. Either god takes the credit for everything or he gets credit for nothing. It's a package deal.
Is god just a logical fallacy?
31 Aug '05 10:45
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