1. Subscriberdivegeester
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    14 Nov '10 11:47
    There is much disturbing evidence to the contrary and I find myself becoming increasingly concerned about the impact on the non-Islamic cultures and religions as Islam grows in political and spiritual weight in the west. I've not seen my debate on his subject in this forum and was wondering what views there are here.
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    14 Nov '10 13:50
    Originally posted by divegeester
    There is much disturbing evidence to the contrary and I find myself becoming increasingly concerned about the impact on the non-Islamic cultures and religions as Islam grows in political and spiritual weight in the west. I've not seen my debate on his subject in this forum and was wondering what views there are here.
    In this world, in this life, at this time, just as in the past, we're witnessing the same old thing.

    There are those who think they have the right to impose their religious, political, philosophical, moral, opinions, beliefs and views on anyone and everyone who get in their way, by whatever means they consider right.

    And the results are always the same. The children suffer the most.

    No one is justified. Nobody wins. A hundred years from now people will view history in retrospect, from the perspective of the dominant world view, and repeat the same old story, but with greater sophistication and technology.

    Maybe man will finally unleash the ultimate destructive force and annihilate all life.
  3. Subscriberdivegeester
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    14 Nov '10 14:28
    Originally posted by josephw
    In this world, in this life, at this time, just as in the past, we're witnessing the same old thing.

    There are those who think they have the right to impose their religious, political, philosophical, moral, opinions, beliefs and views on anyone and everyone who get in their way, by whatever means they consider right.

    And the results are always the same ...[text shortened]... logy.

    Maybe man will finally unleash the ultimate destructive force and annihilate all life.
    So what about Islam?
  4. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    14 Nov '10 22:21
    Originally posted by divegeester
    There is much disturbing evidence to the contrary and I find myself becoming increasingly concerned about the impact on the non-Islamic cultures and religions as Islam grows in political and spiritual weight in the west. I've not seen my debate on his subject in this forum and was wondering what views there are here.
    I wonder how someone in a peaceful Islamic country would feel about christian "invaders"?

    I dont think there is much of an increasing problem. It seems the more women get around in burkas or people have to prostrate 5 times a day , the more you get a backlash in the "normal" community. Islam will never take hold here in Australia.
  5. Standard memberDasa
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    15 Nov '10 06:33
    Originally posted by divegeester
    There is much disturbing evidence to the contrary and I find myself becoming increasingly concerned about the impact on the non-Islamic cultures and religions as Islam grows in political and spiritual weight in the west. I've not seen my debate on his subject in this forum and was wondering what views there are here.
    I will comment by saying:

    Religion is one, God is one, and the process is one......and all other religions, which are only recent fabrications, are but substitute, because they have been established to cater to the matrialistic and specultive needs of man.

    The original religion (sanatan dhama) for mankind, was established at the beginning of this creation, and is actually an eternal religion, because it always is delivered to mankind, at the beginning of every new creation.

    This cosmos is not the first cosmos, but has been created trillions of times before, and every time it is created, the Vedanta Sutra is given to mankind, and then it is passed down by disciplic succession to the presnt day.

    Vedanta Sutra is the only bonafide and true spiritual science for mankind.
  6. Cape Town
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    15 Nov '10 06:491 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Is Islam a religion of peace?
    That question is incoherent. You cannot genuinely ask a general question about a religion as diverse as Islam. Its like asking "Are black people fat" or "Are white people racists". There is no yes or no answer.

    There is much disturbing evidence to the contrary....
    With such a large religion, there will be non-peaceful members. Show me a large religion that is without violence. Between Christians and Muslims which is more violent? I guess one could try to add up all the wars and look at who started them etc, but it would be a very difficult task. I think though that the Muslims would come out looking better than the Christians. Lets see: WWI - Christians. WWII Christians. The Iraq war: Christians. The trouble surrounding Israel - Christians and Jews.

    Here in South Africa we had apartheid : Christians. Cape Town has lots of Muslims and as far as I know they are at least as peaceful as everyone else.

    And although it is not a religion or belief, atheists are responsible for some of the worst atrocities in history. Of course when it comes to atheists there is even less reason to treat them as a group and assign attributes to the whole group. We don't even share a common Holy book.
  7. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    15 Nov '10 06:57
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    I will comment by saying:

    Religion is one, God is one, and the process is one......and all other religions, which are only recent fabrications, are but substitute, because they have been established to cater to the matrialistic and specultive needs of man.

    The original religion (sanatan dhama) for mankind, was established at the beginning of this cr ...[text shortened]... to the presnt day.

    Vedanta Sutra is the only bonafide and true spiritual science for mankind.
    I'm not sure about the "speculative" needs of man, but I dont see a problem with catering for the materlistis needs of man. A religon should be realistic and provide framework for the spiritual direction. I believe there are e few vedas devoted to explaining mans physical situation (quite well, as I remember). (The ayurveda?)
  8. Account suspended
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    15 Nov '10 09:054 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    That question is incoherent. You cannot genuinely ask a general question about a religion as diverse as Islam. Its like asking "Are black people fat" or "Are white people racists". There is no yes or no answer.

    [b]There is much disturbing evidence to the contrary....

    With such a large religion, there will be non-peaceful members. Show me a large r ...[text shortened]... s a group and assign attributes to the whole group. We don't even share a common Holy book.[/b]
    your term incoherent is nonsense in this context, for a comparative study of Islam may indeed be drawn from a broad range of geographic locations and generalities may indeed be drawn. To state that this is incoherent because of a specific strata is nonsense, indeed, me thinks you are straining out the gnat and gulping down the camel! we are (jehovahs witnesses) a large religion without violence, except of course when we are the recipients of such.

    At present there is a women, a Christian, the wife of a simple field labourer being tried for blasphemy against Islam in Pakistan, it carries the death penalty. If Islam and its adherents are not responsible for this, then i would like you to tell me who is. That it is even tolerated by Islamic society, let me rephrase that, supported by Islamic society as a whole is indicative to me of a type of inherent intolerance to criticism, the penalty of which far outweighs the crime. Indeed, i ask you to try to publicly criticise Islam, make a film about it, paint paintings, let me know how many peaceful well wishers send you thankyou cards for your efforts!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-10696762

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11745100
  9. Cape Town
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    15 Nov '10 10:01
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    your term incoherent is nonsense in this context, for a comparative study of Islam may indeed be drawn from a broad range of geographic locations and generalities may indeed be drawn. To state that this is incoherent because of a specific strata is nonsense, indeed, me thinks you are straining out the gnat and gulping down the camel! we are (jehova ...[text shortened]... tnesses) a large religion without violence, except of course when we are the recipients of such.
    I did not realize that you were not Christian. I always thought that Jehovahs Witnesses were a denomination, it is news to me that you are an independent religion. I suggest you go and update the Wikipedia page on your religion as it clearly incorrectly calls you a Christian denomination in the very first line.

    I also withdraw my (regarding violence in all large religions) claim, as I am not aware of any large acts of violence committed by Jehovahs Witnesses, nor do I know how large your religion is (I would guess in the top 10 ? )

    At present there is a women, a Christian, the wife of a simple field labourer being tried for blasphemy against Islam in Pakistan, it carries the death penalty. If Islam and its adherents are not responsible for this, then i would like you to tell me who is.
    So if I give a counter example of a Christian being tried in some country (and I might note that blasphemy is still a crime in some Christian nations I believe), then can we paint all Christians with the same brush? (Yes I know you are not a Christian so won't be tarnished).
    Why can't we paint all those members of Abrahamic religions with the same brush, and get you included too?
    The answer is simple: because an example doesn't prove a generality.

    So explain how your example is useful to the discussion.
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    15 Nov '10 10:23
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    That question is incoherent. You cannot genuinely ask a general question about a religion as diverse as Islam. Its like asking "Are black people fat" or "Are white people racists". There is no yes or no answer.

    [b]There is much disturbing evidence to the contrary....

    With such a large religion, there will be non-peaceful members. Show me a large r ...[text shortened]... s a group and assign attributes to the whole group. We don't even share a common Holy book.[/b]
    wwii was started by a vegetarian, are vegetarians to blame?

    if you want to make a list of the wars started by christianity or a religion in general you should look at the wars started because of religion and not by a member of such religion. wwi was started by christians but under no circumstance was it a religious war so why mention it.


    also it is really unproductive to mention past crimes. yes, crusades were horrible. but so was human sacrifice. and the way they conducted medicine. and how they treated humans in general. but they were barbarians. we learn from the past but we don't use it to argue the merits or whatever of current cultures. otherwise we would hold americans and germans responsible for the attrocities of their forefathers.

    the conclusion is this: like you said, a large group will have its evil bastards. the majority of muslims aren't terrorists and don't support such extremism and christians will no longer go to jerusalem to kill a bunch of people if the pope demands it.
  11. SubscriberProper Knob
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    15 Nov '10 11:37
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    your term incoherent is nonsense in this context, for a comparative study of Islam may indeed be drawn from a broad range of geographic locations and generalities may indeed be drawn. To state that this is incoherent because of a specific strata is nonsense, indeed, me thinks you are straining out the gnat and gulping down the camel! we are (jehova ...[text shortened]... .bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-10696762

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11745100
    Christian Uganda wanted to impose a law that meant homosexuals could be executed. Does that mean Christainity is full of hate mongering, homophobes?

    Erm.................no need to reply, i know the answer to that already. 😉
  12. Standard memberDasa
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    15 Nov '10 11:57
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    I'm not sure about the "speculative" needs of man, but I dont see a problem with catering for the materlistis needs of man. A religon should be realistic and provide framework for the spiritual direction. I believe there are e few vedas devoted to explaining mans physical situation (quite well, as I remember). (The ayurveda?)
    Yes you are corect in saying that, and the Vedas have many branch,s....to name a few:

    * Aryur veda......medicine
    * Gandava veda.........music
    * Dhanur veda ......martial science
    * Sthapatya veda....architecture
    * Jytisa veda ......astromony & astology
    * Canda veda poetry
    * Kalpa veda ...rituals
    * Nirukta veda....etymology & lexicology
    * kalas veda.....carpentry, jewel craft, metal testing..... and hundreds more.

    These Vedas assist the people in living their lives (economic lives) in the green sense of living.

    But Vedanta Sutra is for the person who is finished with this material life, and wants to develope their spiritual life and go back home to Godhead, forever, and not return to this world of suffering.
  13. Cape Town
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    15 Nov '10 11:59
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    .... and christians will no longer go to jerusalem to kill a bunch of people if the pope demands it.
    Thats because the Pope is one of the more moderate Christians. But the violence around Jerusalem and the surrounding area is supported in part by some Christians, in some cases for religious reasons.

    And don't forget that Bush said something about God sending him to Iraq.
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    15 Nov '10 12:461 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    There is much disturbing evidence to the contrary and I find myself becoming increasingly concerned about the impact on the non-Islamic cultures and religions as Islam grows in political and spiritual weight in the west. I've not seen my debate on his subject in this forum and was wondering what views there are here.
    At one time, Islam used to be a center of learning and tolerance. In fact, it used to be more so than Christiandom. Of course, that was during a time when Christians were not allowed to read the holy scriptures and depended on priests to read and interpret it for them. That was a time when people were buying their way out of "purgatory". Then wnen Martin Luther observed this and knew better because it conflicted with scripture he went into a tizzy and the rest is history.

    Looking at the world today it would appear that the tables have turned. The Islam world is largely ignorant and uneducated thus making easy prey for the "religious leaders" to tell them to go blow themselves up for Allah. Of course, it does not help matters when Mohammad gives his followers liscence to kill in the name of God for various reasons. This is an aspect that Christians simply cannot relate to.
  15. SubscriberProper Knob
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    15 Nov '10 13:01
    Originally posted by whodey
    At one time, Islam used to be a center of learning and tolerance. In fact, it used to be more so than Christiandom. Of course, that was during a time when Christians were not allowed to read the holy scriptures and depended on priests to read and interpret it for them. That was a time when people were buying their way out of "purgatory". Then wnen Martin ...[text shortened]... name of God for various reasons. This is an aspect that Christians simply cannot relate to.
    This is an aspect that Christians simply cannot relate to.

    Then i suggest you go and read up on your Mosaic Law.
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