09 Aug '05 01:26>
I don't think so...The bible calls Him the son of God. Never mentions a trinity, nor godman, nor does it imply that 3=1.
Originally posted by checkbaitorI think you meant to say that he never calls himself God, by using the words, "I am God." Paul certainly doesn't hesitate to call him God. You also might consider reading the first chapter of John's gospel.
I don't think so...The bible calls Him the son of God. Never mentions a trinity, nor godman, nor does it imply that 3=1.
Originally posted by kingdanwaParaphrasing C.S. Lewis, right? Well, there is another option: that the Jesus of "reality," that is, the man who was actually give birth to and walked the earth, was all-together different from the icon fleshed out in the books of the Bible commonly known as "the Gospels." In this case, it is possible that Jesus never said he was God.
You can claim that Jesus wasn't God. Fine. But don't say he didn't think he was God. You have a trilemma on your hands, you must choose one of three options. Jesus was crazy, because he thought he was God, but he wasn't. He was a liar, because he knew he wasn't but he said he was God. Or, he was who he said he was.
Originally posted by thesonofsaulI'd be interested in hearing how you would demonstrate a method for discerning what Jesus actually said. I also hope that your method would be applicable to other historical figures (Plato, Aristotle, Whitman, Shelley, Lincoln, Jefferson, etc.). Please share.
Paraphrasing C.S. Lewis, right? Well, there is another option: that the Jesus of "reality," that is, the man who was actually give birth to and walked the earth, was all-together different from the icon fleshed out in the books of t ...[text shortened]... In this case, it is possible that Jesus never said he was God.
Originally posted by thesonofsaulNot really relevant to the question as it was framed, which was about what the Bible says.
Paraphrasing C.S. Lewis, right? Well, there is another option: that the Jesus of "reality," that is, the man who was actually give birth to and walked the earth, was all-together different from the icon fleshed out in the books of the Bible commonly known as "the Gospels." In this case, it is possible that Jesus never said he was God.
Originally posted by kingdanwaThere is no such method, and if it wasn't for the Bible, or more specifically how people treat the Bible as unfailing truth there wouldn't be a need for one. No one has any problem with someone doubting the words of Plato, or that the words we accept as originating from Plato actually came from Joe Shmough, the real author. These thoughts are all fine and acceptable in the intellectual community. One of my favorite historical figures, Hannibal Barca, has come though recorded history in a very garbled way. The few remaining texts that mention him are not considered to be terribly trustworthy. Why are they doubted so much? Why, because people were not afraid to examine them, because they are not the God-book worshipped by so many faithful. No one ever asks, "could you demonstrate for me a way to find out what Hannibal really said?" No. To ask that would be silly, and while I enjoy the silly as much as the next dupe, I can't say that I admire it in this context.
I'd be interested in hearing how you would demonstrate a method for discerning what Jesus actually said. I also hope that your method would be applicable to other historical figures (Plato, Aristotle, Whitman, Shelley, Lincoln, Jefferson, etc.). Please share.
Originally posted by thesonofsaulOf course that debate was resolved by violence, when one side got control of the Roman Army through Constantine.
There is no such method, and if it wasn't for the Bible, or more specifically how people treat the Bible as unfailing truth there wouldn't be a need for one. No one has any problem with someone doubting the words of Plato, or that the words we accept as originating from Plato actually came from Joe Shmough, the real author. These thoughts are all fi ...[text shortened]... s us the Jesus said ... " if we insist on quoting it all the time. That is all.
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Originally posted by kingdanwaWell, it would be silly to compare the methods used for Plato and Lincoln, because the source
I'd be interested in hearing how you would demonstrate a method for discerning what Jesus actually said. I also hope that your method would be applicable to other historical figures (Plato, Aristotle, Whitman, Shelley, Lincoln, Jefferson, etc.). Please share.