05 Sep '12 20:28>
Originally posted by SwissGambitLOL, after Paul Di'Anno left Iron Maiden, metal was doomed to be sung by leotard wearing, wailing opera singers!
I could never get used to that 80's glam shyte with the wailing singers. 😛
Originally posted by galveston75I covered this in the other thread.
Still no takers on these questions?
So a couple easy questions for the trinitarians....
If the teaching of the trinity was taught by Jesus and his followers, it is something that naturally should have been taught by "ALL" his followers after Jesus and the apostles died away, why didn't all the Christians up to the Nicaea event not already believe ...[text shortened]... ans up to Nicaea, so what groups of Christians had this belief and which christians didn't?
Originally posted by Suzianneit took about 400 years and two councils to come up with the particulars of the trinity doctrine. it's hardly valid to claim that it was a wide-spread belief at the time.
As to the second question, you're just wrong. It wasn't obviously not a wide-spread belief, it *was* a wide-spread belief at the time (yes, before Nicaea). Nearly all Christian churches believed it. It was only those churches aligned with the Arians that disavowed it.
Originally posted by SuzianneWhether or not it was a “standing belief" (which is questionable) is irrelevant. The doctrine is not in the Bible, anywhere; it is an erroneous inference which ignores what God actually says about himself throughout the Bible.
I covered this in the other thread.
The fact was that a majority (yes, a majority) of Christian churches accepting the doctrine of Trinity as fact before the First Council of Nicaea. This was probably why it was accepted in the Creeds there in 325. Despite all the politics of the era that I was denouncing in that other thread, the fact remains that the ...[text shortened]... rches believed it. It was only those churches aligned with the Arians that disavowed it.
Originally posted by divegeesterAre there any doctrines in the Holy Bible, in your opinion?
Whether or not it was a “standing belief" (which is questionable) is irrelevant. The doctrine is not in the Bible, anywhere; it is an erroneous inference which ignores what God actually says about himself throughout the Bible.
Originally posted by VoidSpiritIn fact it was SO wide-spread that no one ever thought to "doctrinize" it. It was believed by most Christians and no one ever thought to question it. Until Arius and his movement kept harping on about it and pissed off the pope and the RCC.
it took about 400 years and two councils to come up with the particulars of the trinity doctrine. it's hardly valid to claim that it was a wide-spread belief at the time.
Originally posted by divegeesterHow is it "irrelevant"? Most churches believing in one concept is "irrelevant"? And we are still talking about the Trinity concept, right?
Whether or not it was a “standing belief" (which is questionable) is irrelevant. The doctrine is not in the Bible, anywhere; it is an erroneous inference which ignores what God actually says about himself throughout the Bible.
Originally posted by SuzianneLet me help you out. Christ was crucified on Passover Wednesday, 25 April 31 A.D. However, the exact day is not in any creed and you do have to believe that to be saved. But that makes the time it took 1 year less, so I guess every little bit helps. 😏
In fact it was SO wide-spread that no one ever thought to "doctrinize" it. It was believed by most Christians and no one ever thought to question it. Until Arius and his movement kept harping on about it and pissed off the pope and the RCC.
And it took two councils to finalize it into what we have today. The Creeds were written at the First Council. ...[text shortened]... nity doctrine was already in wide-spread belief for quite some time before the Council met.
Originally posted by SuzianneDon't forget that the nation of Israel is described in the Holy Bible as ONE nation, however, that does not mean that only a single person makes the nation of Israel. The One is not an absolute One in Hebrew, but a united/composite ONE. And in like manner, One God does not mean God is made up of only a single person, because how else are we to explain the person of the Father, the person of the Son, and the person of the Holy Spirit?
How is it "irrelevant"? Most churches believing in one concept is "irrelevant"? And we are still talking about the Trinity concept, right?
And no, the doctrine is not spelled out in the Bible, and it is certainly not called Trinity in the Bible either. Most Christians got the gist of it by reading the Bible. Any one with half a brain could piece it t o. That's the one thing you and others here have conveniently left out in your ranting.
Originally posted by Suzianneit wasn't as wide spread as you think, though it was a growing heresy. those who were fighting the trinity heresy had to be stamped out and it took the trinitarians two councils and persecutions with the power of the state backing them up to do it.
In fact it was SO wide-spread that no one ever thought to "doctrinize" it. It was believed by most Christians and no one ever thought to question it. Until Arius and his movement kept harping on about it and pissed off the pope and the RCC.
And it took two councils to finalize it into what we have today. The Creeds were written at the First Council. nity doctrine was already in wide-spread belief for quite some time before the Council met.
Originally posted by VoidSpiritCreed of Constantinople of 359
it wasn't as wide spread as you think, though it was a growing heresy. those who were fighting the trinity heresy had to be stamped out and it took the trinitarians two councils and persecutions with the power of the state backing them up to do it.
it wasn't firmly established until 381 and the persecutions continued well after that.
also, there was ...[text shortened]... uncil of nicaea!) attended and in that council, the trinitarian doctrine was soundly defeated.
Originally posted by SuzianneYou post reads like it's you who is "ranting".
How is it "irrelevant"? Most churches believing in one concept is "irrelevant"? And we are still talking about the Trinity concept, right?
And no, the doctrine is not spelled out in the Bible, and it is certainly not called Trinity in the Bible either. Most Christians got the gist of it by reading the Bible. Any one with half a brain could piece it t ...[text shortened]... o. That's the one thing you and others here have conveniently left out in your ranting.