1. Standard memberRJHinds
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    26 Aug '12 23:08
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Being as Christ is in fact Jesus, I'll take that as you pray to Jesus, who must therefore be be your God.
    If I remember correctly, Jesus told His disciples to pray to the Father in His name, because no one comes to the Father but through the Son. I understand He is the only mediator between God and man. So to pray to the Father without coming through the authority of Jesus may be useless. 😏
    HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord!
  2. R
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    27 Aug '12 00:04
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Being as Christ is in fact Jesus, I'll take that as you pray to Jesus, who must therefore be be your God.
    Jesus is my Lord and big brother, if you will...God is His Father and mine..
  3. Standard membergalveston75
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    27 Aug '12 01:42
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    If I remember correctly, Jesus told His disciples to pray to the Father in His name, because no one comes to the Father but through the Son. I understand He is the only mediator between God and man. So to pray to the Father without coming through the authority of Jesus may be useless. 😏
    HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord!
    Yes you are right. But..... you don't seem to get that this kills the trinity. If all 3 are in one person or all three are the same person or spirit then you'd be praying to all three at the same time. If that were the case then why do this otherstep of praying thru Christ to get to this other part of God? If all three are the same being or spirit, just pray to the one as all 3 should still hear your prayer. Right? Why did Jesus make this seperation of himself and his Father? Why just not tell us to pray to God directly and all would sill listen anyway?
    And Jesus gave a clear command that we pray to no one else but to only his Father.
    So in the context of the trinity where all three are equal, all knowing, all seeing, then you'd be praying wrongly according to Jesus when he said to only pray to the father.
    And again.......where in the Holy spirit in this praying issue? He was never even mentioned by Jesus in his description of how we are to pray. Is the holy spirit not worthy of being prayed to? Did Jesus forget about him?

    Again tooooo many voids and unaswered questions with the trinity and trying to figure out how it works. God is not a God of confusion but is one of simple truths. There have been ample times this should have been discussed by all in the Bible if it were a truth.
    He wants us to learn about him and his ways and for his love for us. This issue of the trinity has never been mentioned once in the Bible and that is for the reason it does not exist.
  4. Standard memberRJHinds
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    27 Aug '12 02:59
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Yes you are right. But..... you don't seem to get that this kills the trinity. If all 3 are in one person or all three are the same person or spirit then you'd be praying to all three at the same time. If that were the case then why do this otherstep of praying thru Christ to get to this other part of God? If all three are the same being or spirit, just ...[text shortened]... nity has never been mentioned once in the Bible and that is for the reason it does not exist.
    If all 3 are in one person or all three are the same person or spirit then you'd be praying to all three at the same time.

    Let me repeat, there are 3 persons in 1 God. The Father is 1 person, the Son is 1 person, the Holy Spirit is 1 person. 1 + 1 + 1 = 3. The Son is not the Father nor is the Father the Son. The Holy Spirit is not the Father nor is the Father the Holy Spirit. The Son is not the Holy Spirit nor is the Holy Spirit the Son. There are not 3 Gods but only 1 God. God is Spirit and not divided into parts but is inseparable. There are not 3 Spirits but 1 Spirit.
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    27 Aug '12 04:20
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    If all 3 are in one person or all three are the same person or spirit then you'd be praying to all three at the same time.

    Let me repeat, there are 3 persons in 1 God. The Father is 1 person, the Son is 1 person, the Holy Spirit is 1 person. 1 + 1 + 1 = 3.
    oh good, you can add. now all you have to do is stop denying that you worship 3 gods and get on with your life as a polytheist.
  6. Standard memberRJHinds
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    27 Aug '12 05:13
    Originally posted by VoidSpirit
    oh good, you can add. now all you have to do is stop denying that you worship 3 gods and get on with your life as a polytheist.
    My God is complex, not simple.
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    27 Aug '12 07:47
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Jesus is my Lord and big brother, if you will...God is His Father and mine..
    Isaiah says the child's name shall be called "Everlasting Father".
  8. Standard memberRJHinds
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    27 Aug '12 13:53
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Isaiah says the child's name shall be called "Everlasting Father".
    He is called "Everlasting Father" because we believers become adopted children of God because of the salvation offered by this child, who is the only begotten Son of God. This does not mean the Son of God is God the Father. 😏

    HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord!
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    27 Aug '12 17:17
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    He is called "Everlasting Father" because we believers become adopted children of God because of the salvation offered by this child, who is the only begotten Son of God. This does not mean the Son of God is God the Father.
    Why don't you read that back to yourself a few times and see if you really think it makes any sense.
  10. R
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    27 Aug '12 21:46
    Can We “Pray” to Jesus Christ?

    http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/articles/jesus-christ/can-we-pray-to-jesus-christ
  11. Standard membergalveston75
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    27 Aug '12 23:151 edit
    Some information on prayer and this also shows a clear seperation of Jesus and his Father Jerhovah. They were seen in vision by Stephen as being 2 seperate beings in heaven. The holy spirit was not seen beside them in any fashion.
    If they were a 3 in 1 being, this scripture would have been written differently to describe that fact.





    Does Stephen’s exclamation at Acts 7:59 indicate that prayers should be directed to Jesus?

    Acts 7:59 says: “They went on casting stones at Stephen as he made appeal and said: ‘Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.’” Those words have raised questions in the mind of some, since the Bible says that Jehovah is the “Hearer of Prayer.” (Psalm 65:2)

    Did Stephen really pray to Jesus? Would this indicate that Jesus is the same as Jehovah?

    The King James Version says that Stephen was “calling upon God.” Understandably, then, many draw the conclusion reached by Bible commentator Matthew Henry, who said: “Stephen here prays to Christ, and so must we.” However, that viewpoint is erroneous. Why?

    Barnes’ Notes on the New Testament makes this honest admission: “The word God is not in the original, and should not have been in the translation. It is in none of the ancient [manuscripts] or versions.” How did the word “God” come to be inserted into that verse? Scholar Abiel Abbot Livermore called this “an instance of the sectarian biases of the translators.” Most modern translations, therefore, eliminate this spurious reference to God.

    Nevertheless, many versions do say that Stephen “prayed” to Jesus. And the footnote in the New World Translation shows that the term “made appeal” can also mean “invocation; prayer.” Would that not indicate that Jesus is Almighty God? No. Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words explains that in this setting, the original Greek word, e·pi·ka·leo, means: “To call upon, invoke; . . . to appeal to an authority.” Paul used this same word when he declared: “I appeal to Caesar!” (Acts 25:11) Appropriately, then, The New English Bible says that Stephen “called out” to Jesus.

    What prompted Stephen to make such an appeal? According to Acts 7:55, 56, Stephen, “being full of holy spirit, gazed into heaven and caught sight of God’s glory and of Jesus standing at God’s right hand.” Normally, Stephen would have addressed his requests to Jehovah in the name of Jesus. But seeing the resurrected Jesus in vision, Stephen apparently felt free to appeal to him directly, saying: “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” Stephen knew that Jesus had been given authority to raise the dead. (John 5:27-29) He therefore asked Jesus to safeguard his spirit, or life force, until the day when Jesus would raise him to immortal life in the heavens.

    Does Stephen’s brief utterance set a precedent for praying to Jesus? Not at all. For one thing, Stephen clearly distinguished Jesus from Jehovah, for the account says that he saw Jesus “standing at God’s right hand.” Also, these circumstances were exceptional. The only other case of such an utterance being directed to Jesus is that of the apostle John, who similarly addressed Jesus directly when he saw Him in vision.—Revelation 22:16, 20.

    Although Christians today properly direct all their prayers to Jehovah God, they too have unshakable faith that Jesus is “the resurrection and the life.” (John 11:25) As it did Stephen, so faith in Jesus’ ability to raise his followers from the dead can help and sustain us in times of trial.
  12. Standard membergalveston75
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    27 Aug '12 23:28
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    He is called "Everlasting Father" because we believers become adopted children of God because of the salvation offered by this child, who is the only begotten Son of God. This does not mean the Son of God is God the Father. 😏

    HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord!
    I'm just curious of how one would draw a picture of the trinity God on paper to show to a young child what the 3 being God would look like if you were in heaven looking at him or them? Any ideas?
  13. Standard memberRJHinds
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    28 Aug '12 01:21
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Why don't you read that back to yourself a few times and see if you really think it makes any sense.
    Jesus is also called "the good shepherd" and He likens Himself to "a mother hen." I think this is how 'everlasting Father" is meant to be taken and not that Jesus is actually a mother hen, a shepherd, lamb, or God the Father. A son can not be His own Father now can he? Neither is the Son of God His own Father and God.
  14. Standard memberRJHinds
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    28 Aug '12 01:301 edit
    Originally posted by galveston75
    I'm just curious of how one would draw a picture of the trinity God on paper to show to a young child what the 3 being God would look like if you were in heaven looking at him or them? Any ideas?
    I would only be drawing a picture of Jesus within a bright light with angels worshipping and serving Him. How would you draw a picture of the body, soul, and spirit of man?

    P.S. If I wished to distinguish the Father from the Son, I could make a bright light shaped like Jesus with Jesus sitting on the right side and the Holy Spirit as radiating light around the throne.
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    28 Aug '12 02:012 edits
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Can We “Pray” to Jesus Christ?

    http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/articles/jesus-christ/can-we-pray-to-jesus-christ
    On worship:

    Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”
    (Revelation 14:6-7 NKJV)

    I believe the Holy Bible teaches that the Son of God is the one that is to be the judge and He also made heaven and earth. So here we have the everlasting gospel being preached by an angel to men on the Earth telling them to worship Him who made heaven and earth.
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