Is there any hope for mankind?

Originally posted by whodey
There will be. The only difference is, you think that your world utopia can be brought through "democracy" to put things right and I believe the only way to achieve it is for God himself to come to earth and put things right.

Well I am practical and realistic, and I'm not superstitious - as in, waiting for a supernatural being to intervene - if that's what you mean, yes.

I have seen great progress in the country where I live and I have seen ordinary people participating in putting things right, thanks to changes most certainly rooted in democracy, improving human rights, and rising indicators for health, education, justice etc.

If you want to play these momentous shifts in reality down for your own narrow ideological reasons by attaching a meaningless, cynical - and essentially misanthropic - label to it like your scoffing about "your world utopia" or if you are choosing to sit it all out and waiting instead for God "to come to earth", then jolly good for you.

Originally posted by whodey
There will be. The only difference is, you think that your world utopia can be brought through "democracy" to put things right and I believe the only way to achieve it is for God himself to come to earth and put things right.

And in the meantime, it's okay to steal from citizens and govern them like slaveholders?

It's never a waste to treat others as you wish to be treated. Too bad the right doesn't see it that way. We'll all be judged by the way we treat each other.

"Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." -- Matthew 25:40, KJV

Originally posted by FMF
Well I am practical and realistic, and not superstitious - or waiting for a supernatural being to intervene - if that's what you mean, yes.

You imply that by believing as we do, that we are not practical and unrealistic and superstitious. But by my reckoning, we are eminently practical and realistic concerning our future and we also know that there is nothing 'superstitious' about believing in God, despite your eagerness to deride us for our beliefs and to characterize us as 'primitive' and 'backward-thinking'. Again, whatever helps you sleep at night.

And I do wish you'd stop putting words in people's mouths and then asking them if that's what they mean. It usually isn't what they mean at all.

Originally posted by FMF
I think you often stumble because of the smug jaundice of your own ideology, regardless of what "wing" you might think it comes from or which "wing" you believe it pitches itself against.

Clearly there are challenges faced by humanity that require concerted and collective action. This has been true for as long as humans have existed.

If your theism has ro ...[text shortened]... than emulated.

I don't think pointing this out to you is either "left wing" or "right wing".

And look who's calling whom "smug" and "jaundiced".

Originally posted by Suzianne
[...] despite your eagerness to deride us for our beliefs and to characterize us as 'primitive' and 'backward-thinking'. [...] And I do wish you'd stop putting words in people's mouths and then asking them if that's what they mean. It usually isn't what they mean at all.

I have never called anyone here "primitive" or "backward-thinking". Not once. So you appear to be putting words in my mouth, whilst appearing to oppose people doing it. When I ask someone 'is that what you mean?' after I describe how someone's idea has come across to me, to which they can answer yes or no, you're right or you're wrong, and then they can explain how my reiteration was wrong if necessary. It's just bog standard debate and discussion stuff, Suzianne. That's all.

Originally posted by Suzianne
And look who's calling whom "smug" and "jaundiced".

This doesn't address the content of my post, does it? I'll tell you what whodey and I are doing: we are discussing something related to the question "Is there any hope for mankind?" What are you doing?

Originally posted by Suzianne
You imply that by believing as we do, that we are not practical and unrealistic and superstitious. But by my reckoning, we are eminently practical and realistic concerning our future...

Do you think whodey is "eminently practical and realistic" about the world?

Originally posted by whodey
There will be. The only difference is, you think that your world utopia can be brought through "democracy" to put things right and I believe the only way to achieve it is for God himself to come to earth and put things right.

which from past experience has shown clearly there to be zero in the way of aid from some deity or other. Witness the 200 million killed in secular and religious wars in the last 100 odd years. No sign of any deity so it is also clear 2 billion could be killed with zero help from a deity or 10 billion if and when human population gets that high.

We could all go extinct with nary a snort from any deity.

It just goes to show you the difference in how humankind views itself, as important on a cosmic scale V what really is happening, where the loss of literally hundreds of millions of us means zero to a god which should be a big hint as to the probability of expecting help from said deity or deities.

Originally posted by Suzianne
I sort of agree with this, and I've said so to googlefudge.

Feminism really does have bigger fish to fry than worrying about language.

When the glass ceiling still exists, I find it insulting when all people want to do about it is argue over what to call it. Action is still louder than words.

Thank you for understanding.


Mind you I did kinda feel pithy after i turned the tv on and saw what happened in florida 🙁
Somehow it's related

Originally posted by FMF
Well I am practical and realistic, and I'm not superstitious - as in, waiting for a supernatural being to intervene - if that's what you mean, yes.

I have seen great progress in the country where I live and I have seen ordinary people participating in putting things right, thanks to changes most certainly rooted in democracy, improving human rights, and risi ...[text shortened]... osing to sit it all out and waiting instead for God "to come to earth", then jolly good for you.

Sure, Christians just twiddle their thumbs waiting for the coming Messiah.

Did I say that is what we do? No. Did I say that we should not try to make the world a better place? No. What I said was, the world will never be "right" until the Messiah comes.

In fact, mankind would destroy himself if he did not come.

Originally posted by Suzianne
And in the meantime, it's okay to steal from citizens and govern them like slaveholders?

It's never a waste to treat others as you wish to be treated. Too bad the right doesn't see it that way. We'll all be judged by the way we treat each other.

"Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." -- Matthew 25:40, KJV

What are you babbling about? When have I ever said it is OK to steal from people? When did I say slavery was OK? When did I say you should not treat people the way you wish to be treated, etc.?

Originally posted by whodey
Sure, Christians just twiddle their thumbs waiting for the coming Messiah.

Did I say that is what we do? No. Did I say that we should not try to make the world a better place? No. What I said was, the world will never be "right" until the Messiah comes.

In fact, mankind would destroy himself if he did not come.

Who are you ? A Bilderberger or something?

Originally posted by whodey
In fact, mankind would destroy himself if [God] did not come.

But isn't God going to destroy all the non-Christian members of mankind anyway when he does come? If that's not your theology, then what is?

Originally posted by whodey
Sure, Christians just twiddle their thumbs waiting for the coming Messiah. Did I say that is what we do? No. Did I say that we should not try to make the world a better place? No. What I said was, the world will never be "right" until the Messiah comes.

Surely most Christians who are engaged - on the ground - in addressing the challenges faced by humanity also know that it requires concerted and collective action and that democracy plays its part in empowering people to be involved in that action? If so why are you so dismissive of it?

Do you believe that Christians working to make the world a better place are also trying to create a "world utopia" or is it only the efforts of non-believers that you try to dismiss in this way?