1. Standard memberdj2becker
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    11 Apr '05 09:58
    The meaning of man's life is never found only in life itself, if that were true the meaning of life would disappear as soon as man died. It always lies in something that is more than himself, and the deepest meanings of his life and the world is found in God who not only created him and the world, but with a purpose and therefore with a meaning.

    For that reason life and worldview are always grounded in religion, even those that deny God's existance and therefore have to make their own god to fill the void. Man needs a god to give meaning to his life because he cannot go on living if his existance is meaningless.
  2. DonationAcolyte
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    11 Apr '05 10:27
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    The meaning of man's life is never found only in life itself, if that were true the meaning of life would disappear as soon as man died. It always lies in something that is more than himself, and the deepest meanings of his life and the world is found in God who not only created him and the world, but with a purpose and therefore with a meaning.

    For t ...[text shortened]... god to give meaning to his life because he cannot go on living if his existance is meaningless.
    What is the meaning of God's existence? If it has none higher than God, then why does God go on existing?

    Contrary to what you claim, some people are perfectly capable of finding a nontheistic sense of purpose to their lives. You can call all kinds of philosophy 'false gods' if you like, but to do so is to rob the word 'god' of any meaning.
  3. Joined
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    11 Apr '05 10:33
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    The meaning of man's life is never found only in life itself, if that were true the meaning of life would disappear as soon as man died.

    Not necessarily,that depends entirely on what that meaning is and what legacy that man leaves behind.

    It always lies in something that is more than himself,

    I agree with this.

    and the deepest meanings of his life and the world is found in God who not only created him and the world, but with a purpose and therefore with a meaning.

    Since you have not ascertained what the meaning of life is, how can you say that it is found in god? You can have no knowledge of either god or the meaning of life.

    For that reason life and worldview are always grounded in religion, even those that deny God's existance and therefore have to make their own god to fill the void.

    I do no such thing. I need no god and I make no god to fill whatever void you suggest exists. If there is a void in my life, it can only be filled by continuing to search for answers, not by a supernatural entity whose existence is in doubt. I have no need of god and do not create anything to replace him. How can I? I deny his existence and therefore it would be ridiculous to substitute him with something else, there is nothing to substitute in the first place.

    Man needs a god to give meaning to his life because he cannot go on living if his existance is meaningless.

    Nonsense, there is nothing to show this statement is anything more than pure speculation on your part. You would do well, dj2becker, to ask for views from others rather than tell them how they think and how they are. Perhaps you would learn that others see things differently to you and that you do not really understand those people at all.
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    11 Apr '05 10:42
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    The meaning of man's life is never found only in life itself, if that were true the meaning of life would disappear as soon as man died. It always lies in something that is more than himself, and the deepest meanings of his life and the world is found in God who not only created him and the world, but with a purpose and therefore with a meaning.

    For t ...[text shortened]... god to give meaning to his life because he cannot go on living if his existance is meaningless.
    One interpretation your statement demonstrates that God was indeed created by man in order to try and give his life purpose (regardless of whether God exists or not).

    Look at some of the great figures throughout history - Shakespeare for example. Your statement implies that the meaning of his life died with him, something I would steadfastly refute. Looking at my own cherished family who have died, is the meaning of their life extinguished with their death? No, it lives on in our hearts, minds, memories, and in the happy anecdotes we pass on to younger generations.

    I have no problem with searching for answers to some of lifes myesteries by questioning (both internally and externally) the existence of a god (I continue to do so myself), and coming to either accept or deny a god, but to (effectively) state that life is meaningless without a god is anathema to the life experience of millions of people who live rewarding and fulfilling lives without believing in a god.
  5. Standard memberdj2becker
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    11 Apr '05 11:31
    Originally posted by Acolyte
    What is the meaning of God's existence? If it has none higher than God, then why does God go on existing?

    Contrary to what you claim, some people are perfectly capable of finding a nontheistic sense of purpose to their lives. You can call all kinds of philosophy 'false gods' if you like, but to do so is to rob the word 'god' of any meaning.
    What is the meaning of God's existence? If it has none higher than God, then why does God go on existing?

    You answered your own question. Because there is none higher than God.

    Contrary to what you claim, some people are perfectly capable of finding a nontheistic sense of purpose to their lives. You can call all kinds of philosophy 'false gods' if you like, but to do so is to rob the word 'god' of any meaning.

    So the question would then be for them, what is the meaning of life after death?
  6. Standard memberdj2becker
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    11 Apr '05 11:45
    Originally posted by Starrman
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    [b]The meaning of man's life is never found only in life itself, if that were true the meaning of life would disappear as soon as man died.


    Not necessarily,that depends entirely on what that meaning is and what legacy that man leaves behind.

    It always lies in something that is more than himself,

    I ...[text shortened]... others see things differently to you and that you do not really understand those people at all.[/b]
    Not necessarily,that depends entirely on what that meaning is and what legacy that man leaves behind.

    Do you not know what the meaning of meaning is? 🙂 I'd say its "a purpose"

    Since you have not ascertained what the meaning of life is, how can you say that it is found in god? You can have no knowledge of either god or the meaning of life.

    Do you wish to denote a purpose to the life of an individual who is entirely the product of random chance?

    I do no such thing. I need no god and I make no god to fill whatever void you suggest exists. If there is a void in my life, it can only be filled by continuing to search for answers, not by a supernatural entity whose existence is in doubt.

    Have you ever thought of the possibility that God might be the answer you are seeking for?

    I have no need of god and do not create anything to replace him. How can I? I deny his existence and therefore it would be ridiculous to substitute him with something else, there is nothing to substitute in the first place.

    I thought you are seeking for answers to fill the void that is within you? Have you ever thought of the possibility that only God can fill this void?
  7. Standard memberdj2becker
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    11 Apr '05 11:58
    Originally posted by PawnCurry
    One interpretation your statement demonstrates that God was indeed created by man in order to try and give his life purpose (regardless of whether God exists or not).

    Look at some of the great figures throughout history - Shakespeare for example. Your statement implies that the meaning of his life died with him, something I would steadfastly refute. Loo ...[text shortened]... rience of millions of people who live rewarding and fulfilling lives without believing in a god.
    One interpretation your statement demonstrates that God was indeed created by man in order to try and give his life purpose (regardless of whether God exists or not).

    Or rather that God created man with a purpose?

    Look at some of the great figures throughout history - Shakespeare for example. Your statement implies that the meaning of his life died with him, something I would steadfastly refute. Looking at my own cherished family who have died, is the meaning of their life extinguished with their death? No, it lives on in our hearts, minds, memories, and in the happy anecdotes we pass on to younger generations.

    I said, "The meaning of man's life is never found only in life itself, if that were true the meaning of life would disappear as soon as man died." In other words the meaning of man's life does not disappear at death because the meaning of man's life is never found only in life itself, which holds true to your above statement.
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    11 Apr '05 12:06
    You haven't grasp any of what I've said. You cannot know for sure what the meaning of life is, you may have ideas, but you cannot know for sure. However, if you think the meaning of life is a 'purpose' as you put it, lets entertain that idea for the moment.

    This 'purpose' does not have to be the product of god. Neither is there a problem with it being carried out by creatures of random chance (although for the record I will state that I made no allusions to my beliefs about the origin of life here). We can demonstrate already that we have purposes (walking to the shop to get food, having sex to further the gene pool), what makes you think our supposed randomness detracts from our purposefulness?

    As I said in my first reply, I am not looking, but if I were, God is not what I'm seeking, for two simple reasons. 1) I cannot know what god is and as such how could he fit my criteria? 2) I deny his existence and have no belief in the supernatural, how could he be what I am looking for?

    What makes you think I need saving, finding or filling?


  9. Hoagy's Alley
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    11 Apr '05 12:37
    Originally posted by Acolyte

    Contrary to what you claim, some people are perfectly capable of finding a nontheistic sense of purpose to their lives. You can call all kinds of philosophy 'false gods' if you like, but to do so is to rob the word 'god' of any meaning.
    I agree with that. As an atheist I think life has more purpose without God. Those who believe in God (or a god) certainly find purpose in that, but I believe ultimately they're putting their faith in, and in the terms of this thread finding a purpose for living in, a figment of their own imagination. Finding purpose in life with no god is perhaps an even greater challenge, as no one gives you a ready-made set of answers, but I believe it is more meaningful.
  10. Standard memberdj2becker
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    11 Apr '05 13:16
    Originally posted by Starrman
    You haven't grasp any of what I've said. You cannot know for sure what the meaning of life is, you may have ideas, but you cannot know for sure. However, if you think the meaning of life is a 'purpose' as you put it, lets entertain that idea for the moment.

    This 'purpose' does not have to be the product of god. Neither is there a problem with it b ...[text shortened]... he be what I am looking for?

    What makes you think I need saving, finding or filling?


    Maybe you would like to define what I mean by the meaning of life, seeing that you say I cannot know for sure what the meaning of life is. Do you know what the meaning of life is? Do you have true happiness in your life? Do you have any idea what true pleasure is all about?
  11. Standard memberdj2becker
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    11 Apr '05 13:19
    Originally posted by Officer Dibble
    I agree with that. As an atheist I think life has more purpose without God. Those who believe in God (or a god) certainly find purpose in that, but I believe ultimately they're putting their faith in, and in the terms of this thread finding a purpose for living in, a figment of their own imagination. Finding purpose in life with no god is perhaps ...[text shortened]... challenge, as no one gives you a ready-made set of answers, but I believe it is more meaningful.
    Do you mean to say that you are not putting your faith in the non-existance of God? What do you define as 'a purpose in life'?
  12. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    11 Apr '05 13:24
    Originally posted by Officer Dibble
    I agree with that. As an atheist I think life has more purpose without God. Those who believe in God (or a god) certainly find purpose in that, but I believe ultimately they're putting their faith in, and in the terms of this thread finding a purpose for living in, a figment of their own imagination. Finding purpose in life with no god is perhaps ...[text shortened]... challenge, as no one gives you a ready-made set of answers, but I believe it is more meaningful.
    God or no God : only a person with an incomplete sense of self thinks life has no meaning without being told what gives it meaning.
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    11 Apr '05 13:30
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Man needs a god to give meaning to his life because he cannot go on living if his existance is meaningless.
    While this is true for most men, it is not true for all.

    Has it ever crossed your mind, dj2pecker, that this "need for meaning" was the reason man invented God in the first place, in the absence of any scientific reason. Hmmmm?

    Personally, I have no problems accepting my meaningless existence and living my life to simply enjoy my time here. I'm no nihilist, but I can appreciate some of its philosophy.
  14. Felicific Forest
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    11 Apr '05 13:53

    One cannot expect an atheist to say: There isn't any meaning at all in life without God.

    They'll find all sorts of reasoning to give a meaning to life, yet the only one that is the true and unshakable one escapes their event horizon.
  15. Standard memberdj2becker
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    11 Apr '05 13:59
    Originally posted by darvlay
    While this is true for most men, it is not true for all.

    Has it ever crossed your mind, dj2pecker, that this "need for meaning" was the reason man invented God in the first place, in the absence of any scientific reason. Hmmmm?

    Personally, I have no problems accepting my meaningless existence and living my life to simply enjoy my time here. I'm no nihilist, but I can appreciate some of its philosophy.
    Do you know that you have a life view? Do you know that any live view is above reason? The life view, man's answer to who he is, refuses to be restricted between the narrow boundaries of reason. For that reason it is often in conflict with logical thought. It is significant that the life view is not focused on therefore not on the comprehensible. It is then also not a conclusion at which a person can arrive after careful deliberation. The source of the life view lies much deeper than the intellect: it is seated in the dimension of faith, which is non-rational and rests upon faith and certainty, which do not depend on human circumstances.

    In his search for meaning, man wants to know who he really is. He learns this partially through communication with other people and things, but his origin and his destination, the deepest meaning of his life, can only be learned in communication with his Maker, which is what we call faith.

    If you put your faith in the non-existance of your Maker then there is no way that you can find out the true meaning of your life.
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