Originally posted by ivanhoe One cannot expect an atheist to say: There isn't any meaning at all in life without God.
They'll find all sorts of reasoning to give a meaning to life, yet the only one that is the true and unshakable one escapes their event horizon.
Oh please ivanhoe, don't be so patronising. This works both ways, I could say that you are so scared of a life in which you are responsible for your actions and given no second chances that you invent excuses rather than face up to your simple and short mortality.
Everyone I know, theist or atheist thinks there is a meaning to life, Atheists merely have different ways of classifying it.
Originally posted by dj2becker The meaning of man's life is never found only in life itself, if that were true the meaning of life would disappear as soon as man died. It always lies in something that is more than himself, and the deepest meanings of his life and the world is found in God who not only created him and the world, but with a purpose and therefore with a meaning.
For t ...[text shortened]... god to give meaning to his life because he cannot go on living if his existance is meaningless.
I have no idea where you got that information you're stating as fact. If it's just your opinion then so be it. It's wrong either way.
Originally posted by dj2becker Do you know that you have a life view? Do you know that any live view is above reason? The life view, man's answer to who he is, refuses to be restricted between the narrow boundaries of reason. For that reason it is often in conflict with logical thought. It is significant that the life view is not focused on therefore not on the comprehensible. It is th ...[text shortened]... xistance of your Maker then there is no way that you can find out the true meaning of your life.
I'm not interested in what you believe to be the "true meaning of life". In my opinion, this is a fallacious and arrogant statement. If my life view, or meaning, is nihilistic or existentialist in nature, for example, it is not necessarily false because it contradicts your meaning.
Originally posted by Starrman Oh please ivanhoe, don't be so patronising. This works both ways, I could say that you are so scared of a life in which you are responsible for your actions and given no second chances that you invent excuses rather than face up to your simple and short mortality.
Everyone I know, theist or atheist thinks there is a meaning to life, Atheists merely have different ways of classifying it.
Starrmann: "This works both ways, I could say that you are so scared of a life in which you are responsible for your actions and given no second chances that you invent excuses rather than face up to your simple and short mortality."
I'll let you in on a little secret: I dó live a life in which I am responsible for my actions.
Originally posted by darvlay I'm not interested in what you believe to be the "true meaning of life". In my opinion, this is a fallacious and arrogant statement. If my life view, or meaning, is nihilistic or existentialist in nature, for example, it is not necessarily false because it contradicts your meaning.
Do you mean to say that there are no moral absolutes?
Originally posted by dj2becker The meaning of man's life is never found only in life itself, if that were true the meaning of life would disappear as soon as man died. It always lies in something that is more than himself, and the deepest meanings of his life and the world is found in God who not only created him and the world, but with a purpose and therefore with a meaning.
For t ...[text shortened]... god to give meaning to his life because he cannot go on living if his existance is meaningless.
Wrong.
For example, I know a man personally whose life is not based upon subservience to God but upon service to all beings. The amount of good he has done in his long life would likely dwarf all the deeds of jaw-flapppin' chessplayers in these threads combined. His life has very deep meaning in it each and every day. Whether or not God exists is no concern to him. That beings suffer and he can help them directly and indirectly in many ways does concern him greatly.
Your theory fits your personally held view but does not reflect reality.
Originally posted by dj2becker In other words you are saying that everything is relative. There are no absolutes.
Are you on crack? I am saying that your statement is false. People hold their own personal "meaning of life" and it is not necessarily false because the Bible tells you so. What don't you understand about this?
If you must know, my personal opinion is that moral abolutes exist in this society for reasons of natural instinct regarding interaction and co-habitation; and it has nothing to do with spirituality or life-meaning. But that's neither here nor there.
Starrmann: "This works both ways, I could say that you are so scared of a life in which you are responsible for your actions and given no second chances that you invent excuses rather than face up to your simple and short mortality."
I'll let you in on a little secret: I dó live a life in which I am responsible for my actions.
Exactly! So don't be so childish and presume to patronise others who are as capable of living without the idea of god as you are with it.
Originally posted by dj2becker In other words you are saying that everything is relative. There are no absolutes.
jeez, Im still trying to make sense outta your :
"The meaning of man's life is never found only in life itself, if that were true the meaning of life would disappear as soon as man died."
that statement causes thoughts about equivocation and four terms to bounce around in my head around in my head.and I'm not sure just how many terms are in it can you try to make is a bit less ambiguous.
Originally posted by darvlay Are you on crack? I am saying that your statement is false. People hold their own personal "meaning of life" and it is not necessarily false because the Bible tells you so. What don't you understand about this?
If you must know, my personal opinion is that moral abolutes exist in this society for reasons of natural instinct regarding interact ...[text shortened]... and it has nothing to do with spirituality or life-meaning. But that's neither here nor there.
People do claim their own personal meaning of life. Just like thieves claim their own property rights, nations decide to change their neighbor's borders, and murderers claim their own right to make life and death decisions. And yet, we know inherently, that some of those claims are wrong, untrue and invalid.
I think that is the premise of all of these discussions. We are left, therefore, with studying only the merits of our reasoning.
Originally posted by chinking58 People do claim their own personal meaning of life. Just like thieves claim their own property rights, nations decide to change their neighbor's borders, and murderers claim their own right to make life and death decisions. And yet, we know inherently, that some of those claims are wrong, untrue and invalid.
I think that is the premise of all of these discussions. We are left, therefore, with studying only the merits of our reasoning.
Okay. I will agree with that. However, it doesn't make dj2becker any less of a dope for trying to put words in my mouth.
Moral constructs have been instilled into our society over centuries and we learn them early in life while our minds are still sponges, but if the two of us happened to have been raised in an environment of lawlessness who says that we would inherently know that theft, murder, etc. are wrong?
Originally posted by darvlay Okay. I will agree with that. However, it doesn't make dj2becker any less of a dope for trying to put words in my mouth.
Moral constructs have been instilled into our society over centuries and we learn them early in life while our minds are still sponges, but if the two of us happened to have been raised in an environment of lawlessness who says that we would inherently know that theft, murder, etc. are wrong?
As Man is a social animal and such conduct is damaging to the group, I still think a properly functioning person would still see these things as "wrong". I don't see that the concept of a God enters into it at all; in fact, the "Christians" on this site insist that Man's basic nature is "evil" or "vile" so apparently to them Man does not find murder, theft, etc. intrinsically "wrong".
Originally posted by no1marauder As Man is a social animal and such conduct is damaging to the group, I still think a properly functioning person would still see these things as "wrong". I don't see that the concept of a God enters into it at all; in fact, the "Christians" on this site insist that Man's basic nature is "evil" or "vile" so apparently to them Man does not find murder, theft, etc. intrinsically "wrong".
Knowing that something is wrong doesn't mean you won't do it. Any 5-yr-old caught with his hand in the cookie jar knows that. He knows it's wrong, but he still want's that cookie.
Is there any meaning in life without God?
11 Apr '05 14:12
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