Originally posted by FabianFnasStop using cliches and listen to one line of commonsense.
To be islamo-phobic is that you have an irrational fear of every muslem, right (Compare with spider-phbic, that you don't care if it is poisonous or not, you just don't like them, even the totally harmless ones). If you are islamo-phobic and you see someone that is a moslem, has a moslem name, or coming from a moslem country, even look moslemish, then you ...[text shortened]... h, there is every wrong to be islamophobic. But it can be treated, as any other phobia.
THERE IS SUCH A THING AS A HEALTHY FEAR OF SNAKES, SPIDERS, AND ISLAM.
We simply differ on which point it becomes irrational. Often but not always education reduces certain fears, such as being able to differentiate between a poisonous snake and a harmless one. In the case of Islam the more you understand Islam the more you should be afraid of it and the fanaticism it creates.
Originally posted by Rajk999Religious fundamentalism breeds fanaticism, whether it be Muslim or Christian. They are exactly the same in that regard. The only difference is that in the west we have stronger secular institutions to keep the fundamentalists at bay. That wall of separation between church and state is the only thing that keeps Christianity from reverting back into the fanatical and murderous religion that it was in the dark ages. If Christianity appears to be a more civil religion, it's only because we keep it on a much shorter leash.
Stop using cliches and listen to one line of commonsense.
THERE IS SUCH A THING AS A HEALTHY FEAR OF SNAKES, SPIDERS, AND ISLAM.
We simply differ on which point it becomes irrational. Often but not always education reduces certain fears, such as being able to differentiate between a poisonous snake and a harmless one. In the case of Islam the more you understand Islam the more you should be afraid of it and the fanaticism it creates.
Originally posted by PinkFloydPete Stark, Jr. of California has been serving in the U.S. House of Representatives since 1973. He is also the only openly atheist member of Congress. He has won re-election 16 times, with his percentage of votes never dropping below 60%. Obviously there are many Christians in California who are considerably less narrow minded than you are.
I care. I wouldn't knowingly vote for an non-Christian.
Back to the point, only God knows his heart but I think he's a Chtistian.
Ernie Chambers served in the Nebraska State Senate for 38 years, a remarkable feat considering that he is a black, liberal, agnostic in a state that last voted Democrat in 1964. He was only removed from office due to term limitations. Even in that benighted state there are obviously many Christians who are less bigoted than you are.
Originally posted by rwingetthow many people did Christ and the early Christians murder? i want to hear you say it, how many? perhaps if you do your research you will realize that the early Christians were paraded in theaters of war, to fight with beasts as entertainment for the masses, why is seeing someone been torn alive entertaining? when we compare this too those secular institutions that you are so fond of venerating the contrast is quite stark, for they have literally the blood of millions on their hands, therefore i want you to acknowledge that modern Christianity is unrecognizable from what Christ and the early Christians taught and practiced! and furthermore i want you to publicly admit that the teachings of Christ have been superseded by secularism, which is the real reason we are in the mess we are!
Religious fundamentalism breeds fanaticism, whether it be Muslim or Christian. They are exactly the same in that regard. The only difference is that in the west we have stronger secular institutions to keep the fundamentalists at bay. That wall of separation between church and state is the only thing that keeps Christianity from reverting back into the fana ...[text shortened]... nity appears to be a more civil religion, it's only because we keep it on a much shorter leash.
Originally posted by rwingettTrue, but the dangerous type of religious fundamentalism - the kind leading to the death of others - is more common in Islam.
Religious fundamentalism breeds fanaticism, whether it be Muslim or Christian. They are exactly the same in that regard. The only difference is that in the west we have stronger secular institutions to keep the fundamentalists at bay. That wall of separation between church and state is the only thing that keeps Christianity from reverting back into the fana ...[text shortened]... nity appears to be a more civil religion, it's only because we keep it on a much shorter leash.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWell said.
how many people did Christ and the early Christians murder? i want to hear you say it, how many? perhaps if you do your research you will realize that the early Christians were paraded in theaters of war, to fight with beasts as entertainment for the masses, why is seeing someone been torn alive entertaining? when we compare this too those secular in ...[text shortened]... f Christ have been superseded by secularism, which is the real reason we are in the mess we are!
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIf you read the "Jesus was a socialist" thread, you will clearly see that I think contemporary Christianity has little in common with the actual Jesus. But I am not condemning Jesus. I am condemning the entire bloody history of post-Constantinian Christianity. The secular enlightenment is what pulled Christianity out of the dark ages. So any supposed moral superiority that Christians may claim over Islam is entirely due to a moderating secular influence. Something that Islam has thus far lacked. The fact that there have been some secular institutions that have committed atrocities in their own right does not let Christianity off the hook.
how many people did Christ and the early Christians murder? i want to hear you say it, how many? perhaps if you do your research you will realize that the early Christians were paraded in theaters of war, to fight with beasts as entertainment for the masses, why is seeing someone been torn alive entertaining? when we compare this too those secular in ...[text shortened]... f Christ have been superseded by secularism, which is the real reason we are in the mess we are!
Originally posted by rwingettyes ok, apologizes for misunderstanding you, ill cut you some slack this time my illustrious friend, however now it has swung too far, with secularism trying to establish a basis for every kind of depravity and morality devoid of accountability, its now the turn of Christianity to save secularism from itself, don't you think?
If you read the "Jesus was a socialist" thread, you will clearly see that I think contemporary Christianity has little in common with the actual Jesus. But I am not condemning Jesus. I am condemning the entire bloody history of post-Constantinian Christianity. The secular enlightenment is what pulled Christianity out of the dark ages. So any supposed moral ...[text shortened]... ions that have committed atrocities in their own right does not let Christianity off the hook.
-Removed-While I do think people should be judged by their actions, I do not recall "repeatedly" pointing that out. I also do not claim that Christianity is responsible for all the ills of the world. If it sounds that way to you, then you are merely projecting your own biases onto my posts. My posts frequently attack religious fundamentalism. Because the religious fundamentalists on this site are almost exclusively Christian, I frequently attack Christian fundamentalists. I acknowledge that there are atheists who have committed their own crimes, but there does seem to be a conspicuous lack of atheist suicide bombers, for example. Likewise, you'll never see an atheist fly a jet into a skyscraper in the name of atheism. Those type of crimes are exclusively the product of religious fundamentalism.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI disagree that secularism is "trying to establish a basis for every kind of depravity." But perhaps your definition of depravity is quite a bit broader than mine. I also disagree that secularism is trying to establish a "morality devoid of accountability." We are still held accountable for our actions in secular ethics, just not to a supernatural god. I also disagree that "secularism" is a cohesive single minded entity, as your posts seem to imply, as though all secularists are part of the same club. It is not. Secularism can take on many different characteristics.
yes ok, apologizes for misunderstanding you, ill cut you some slack this time my illustrious friend, however now it has swung too far, with secularism trying to establish a basis for every kind of depravity and morality devoid of accountability, its now the turn of Christianity to save secularism from itself, don't you think?
And finally, I do not think Christianity can save secularism (not that it needs saving). Christianity should be more worried about saving itself. The tighter it clings to its shopworn mythology, the less and less relevant it is going to become to people's lives in the modern world. Like Bishop Spong, I think Christianity needs a major overhaul for the 21st century. I think that would be a worthwhile project.
-Removed-I most certainly did not blame Christianity for the Nazi holocaust. My point in that thread was that our esteemed robbie carrobie could be considered the moral equivalent of a Nazi because he would not disavow divinely inspired genocide. His religionus beliefs required him to defend genocide (actually, he went to extraordinary lengths to avoid condemning it). My secondary point was that since many Nazis were Christian, it is evident that being a Christian does not make one any less susceptible to committing atrocities. If you believe that genocide can be justified on religious grounds, it may make you more susceptible to them.
A person who has a secular axe to grind is far less likely to martyr himself if he does not believe in a heavenly reward. The cause of his anger may be secular in nature, but the action he subsequently takes is conditioned by his religious beliefs. The fact is that religious fundamentalism breeds martyrs.