24 Jul 08
3 edits
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/columnists/rdreher/stories/011308dnedidreher.1ab6eb80.html
Several years ago, the Jordanian parliament voted down attempts by Jordanian women and human rights activists to end honor killing, which takes the lives of 20 to 30 Jordanian women each year. Parliament upheld lenient sentences for men guilty of honor killing as necessary to protect traditional Islamic social mores against Westernization. Human rights activists there complain that there is little political will to fight honor killings because the barbaric practice is so culturally entrenched.
The legitimacy of male violence against rebellious women is by no means an extreme view among Arab Muslims. A columnist in the Yemen Times last week argued that violence against women is sometimes necessary to "preserve the morals and principles with which Islam has honored us."
...
In two separate meetings with members of this newspaper's editorial board, Mohamed Elmougy, a prominent North Texas Muslim community leader and Egyptian immigrant, defended violence, even deadly violence, against women and homosexuals. Though the term "honor killing" did not come up in either discussion, Mr. Elmougy explained that violence against sexual outlaws is acceptable to defend the family and the social order.
"The way we view it, we don't look at it as violent," he said. "We look at it as a deterrent."
24 Jul 08
1 edit
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesDo you really expect to find a dissenting voice here? After all, how many Muslims do we have on this site. In addition, if the few that we have had are here, I suspect they are laying rather low right now.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/columnists/rdreher/stories/011308dnedidreher.1ab6eb80.html
Several years ago, the Jordanian parliament voted down attempts by Jordanian women and human rights activists to end honor killing, which takes the lives of 20 to 30 Jordanian women each year. Parliament upheld lenient sentenc t, we don't look at it as violent," he said. "We look at it as a deterrent."
24 Jul 08
2 edits
Originally posted by whodeyYes. There are a lot of people whose political correctness has induced them to believe that Muslims ought to be given special consideration in virtue of being a minority in the Western world, or of merely being a religion. For example, you yourself think it was OK for Abraham to follow God's command and set out to murder his own son.
Do you really expect to find a dissenting voice here?
24 Jul 08
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesIf someone murdered their own son I would not be defending them even if they believed God told them to. Also, it is fair to point out that God did not let Abraham go through with it as where these people are lobbing off heads left and right. I also do not believe any politically correct people you speak about have the gonades to touch this with a ten foot poll.
Yes. There are a lot of people whose political correctness has induced them to believe that Muslims ought to be given special consideration in virtue of being a minority in the Western world, or of merely being a religion. For example, you yourself think it was OK for Abraham to follow God's command and set out to murder his own son.
24 Jul 08
2 edits
Originally posted by whodeyIf that example doesn't suit you, the Old Testament is rich in others where God's commands to slaughter were carried out in full. Are you saying that God's chosen people were wrong in carrying out the slaughter of the Midianites, for example? I believe quite a number of heads were lobbed off at God's command in that incident.
Also, it is fair to point out that God did not let Abraham go through with it as where these people are lobbing off heads left and right.
24 Jul 08
2 edits
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesI suppose that is a better example, however, the justification for killing and going to war are rather extensive. For example, I am not against the death penalty for certain crimes. In addition, I think there are justifications for going to war. Of course you will say it was not just a war it was a genocide. As for that accusation, I give no judstification just as I would give no justification for someone who said God told them to kill their son. If God is truly hehind such things, then justification will be provided by him. If not, they better watch their step, if you know what I mean.
If that example doesn't suit you, the Old Testament is rich in others where God's commands to slaughter were carried out in full. Are you saying that God's chosen people were wrong in carrying out the slaughter of the Midianites, for example? I believe quite a number of heads were lobbed off at God's command in that incident.
BTW: Do you think God was justified for having his own Son killed? This, of course, is assuming the story is true.
24 Jul 08
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesActually, I doubt that any present day Jewish person who is not a fundamentalist fruitcake (like all "deeply religious" fruitcakes"😉 would accept a belief that it is ever ok to murder one's children.
Yes. There are a lot of people whose political correctness has induced them to believe that Muslims ought to be given special consideration in virtue of being a minority in the Western world, or of merely being a religion. For example, you yourself think it was OK for Abraham to follow God's command and set out to murder his own son.
And I'm also quite confident the vast majority of Jewish people, again leaving out those who are deeply irrational or actually suffering from a mental disorder (which may amount to the same thing, actually), believe that anyone claiming to hear God's "voice" telling them to kill one's child is per se beyond the bounds of what our society deems a normative mental state -- in other words, only crazy people would believe God speaks to them, personally, let alone puts out contracts on their children.
The point of the whole story of Abraham and Isaac was to establish 1.) the authority vested in the monotheistic belief system that became Judaism, so you'd listen to the Rebbe and not get all farklempt already, and 2.) that you would always submit to this authority, and if you did, then bad things wouldn't always happen to you because there would an "understanding" or covenant -- not Santa Claus, but definitely some sort of clause conferring benefits - milk, honey, whatever.
Why don't you sit down and give your mind a rest? Your literalism is no better a tool of reasoning than some fundamentalist fruitcake.
24 Jul 08
2 edits
Originally posted by ScriabinWell as for this fundamentalist fruitcake who believes God does speak to us, I would say that there are unquestionable parallels that can be drawn between Abraham sacrificing his ONLY son and God sacrificing his own ONLY Son. In fact, perhaps this is the sole reason Abraham was asked to do such a thing?
Actually, I doubt that any present day Jewish person who is not a fundamentalist fruitcake (like all "deeply religious" fruitcakes"😉 would accept a belief that it is ever ok to murder one's children.
And I'm also quite confident the vast majority of Jewish people, again leaving out those who are deeply irrational or actually suffering from a mental disor ur literalism is no better a tool of reasoning than some fundamentalist fruitcake.
Now let the scourging and belittling of fundamentalist fruitcakes continue. 😛
24 Jul 08
2 edits
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesI hear a lot about your beliefs -- but you mistake me, perhaps, for someone who gives a damn.
If that example doesn't suit you, the Old Testament is rich in others where God's commands to slaughter were carried out in full. Are you saying that God's chosen people were wrong in carrying out the slaughter of the Midianites, for example? I believe quite a number of heads were lobbed off at God's command in that incident.
So the Bible says God blessed a war, does it? Stop the presses! this is big news --not good news perhaps, but big, BIG news. Ok, it isn't REAL news, like another Britney underwear alert would be, but pretty big, still. And it isn't really NEW news, like Batman really does have a dark side, but still news.
Show me a war where both sides failed to claim God was on their side.
So you think God actually commanded anyone to lop (not lob, that's what you do in tennis for crying out loud) anyone's head off?
Of course not. So put a sock in it already before opening your mouth again just to put the other foot in it.