Islam the Religion of Allah (SATAN)

Originally posted by Pianoman1
How right you are! You would all have a massive effect on the actions of this nation. FOR THE WORSE. I don't wish to enter into a playground squabble of "I'm right, you're wrong", that would be pathetic amongst intelligent adults, but any alignment of spiritual and political leadership, of whatever colour, cannot work, because the two are mutually exclusiv ...[text shortened]... s no place in today's enlightened world to force religion, or indeed politics, on anyone.

I wonder if anyone took note of a nice police state action by the US Supreme court:
They have given police the right to strip search anyone for ANY violation, like having a broken tail light or some such. So we are bound for a police state already. I'm sure the right wing deadheads love it.

Originally posted by sonhouse
I wonder if anyone took note of a nice police state action by the US Supreme court:
They have given police the right to strip search anyone for ANY violation, like having a broken tail light or some such. So we are bound for a police state already. I'm sure the right wing deadheads love it.

How right you are. Living in England I feel every day an increasing sense of doom, an enfeeblement of the individual in the face of the police state. Like a juggernaut it gains inertia and renders us powerless with its extreme rightiwing bigotry. Thankfully, this side of the pond, we are not exposed to extreme religious fanaticism in the way you are. Yet.

Originally posted by finnegan
You are simply playing with words in order to sound as if your claims make sense when they are totally incoherent.

The claim that Christian politics is based on conscience is debatable but not relevant. It is political.

It is political to pay taxes or not to pay them, to serve in public office or not, to serve in the army or not. People refused to f ...[text shortened]... d long ago. It has been much loved by tyrants throughout history. They use it to control people.

Christian politics is your invention, not mine, it is clear that Christ set a precedent,
followed by first century Christians, to remain politically neutral. When on trial for
his life according to the gospel account, he refused to state anything to Pilate other
than that he was a King of a Kingdom which was no part of the world. Following this
precedent early Christians did not hold political office, they did not join the army, the
government to which they looked to was not wordy, but heavenly, that being Gods
Kingdom. These are incontrovertible historical and Biblical facts.

It appears to me that it is not I that is concerned with word play in order to
legitimise my argument but you, who insist on terming these actions as political,
attempting to utilise the word in the broadest possible sense to accommodate your
assertions when its clear that in practice, such was not the case.

Playing a game? What is it about Gods Kingdom being a reality to us that yet
evades you? We are in relative subjection to a superior authority, as soon as the
principles of that authority are transgressed, as in making weapons, or killing we
shall not comply to the point of our lives. At the risk of being accused of playing the
so called Nazi card, one only needs to look at the deeds of our sect during the
tyranny of Nazi Germany to know that this is true. How is that playing a game? You
are either ignorant of these facts or your have really no idea to what extent persons
are willing to go to for the sake of principles that they hold in higher esteem than life
its self. I resent your diminishing of these historical facts and i resent your
assertions of manipulation and being ill informed, for one needs to know what
principles ones stands for and why when ones life is in the balance, yah think!

The fact of the matter remains, application of the teachings of the Christ would
solve, in an instant, the many problems facing mankind, you have not nor can you
refute it with vain appeals to Americans or politics, We remain no part of this world.

and before I go, Paul's counsel to Christians

(Romans 13:5-7) There is therefore compelling reason for you people to be in
subjection, not only on account of that wrath but also on account of your
conscience.  

perhaps you need to understand just why Paul wrote this and perhaps you may gain
an insight into the early Christians and their practices, rather than viewing events
through some kind of bastardization of the original.

Originally posted by JS357

Christians have no place in politics, we, like the Christ are no part of the political
system, absolutely neutral,...

With all due respect, even affection, I submit: Being neutral is a political position.

Your having no place at the political table does influence the political process and the resulting policies and practices. The s have a role in the politics of any country in which you are a sizable part of the population.

Our position is one of relative subjection,

(Romans 13:1-2) . . .Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for
there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their
relative positions by God.  Therefore he who opposes the authority has taken a stand
against the arrangement of God;. . . there is therefore compelling reason for you
people to be in subjection, not only on account of that wrath but also on account of
your conscience. . .

If it appears to you that by remaining politically neutral we are taking a political
stance then so be it, I cannot change your perceptions. However it would be better
if you understood our reasons for doing so. Understanding is always better and the
primary target to be aimed for, for even if we disagree, we can understand why a
person holds such a position.

we are in relative subjection, thus, if a ruling authority demands that we hold a
particular political affiliation, we shall never comply, if we are called on to transgress
our Biblical principles by making weapons or going to war, we shall never comply,
because it is a relative subjection. If this appears to be political then so be it, but its
not a process that we have sought, merely that pressures have been brought to
bear which has forced us into taking a stance for our beliefs. This appears to me to
be quite different from the political process of utilising a platform (congress or
parliament) with the view to forwarding our aims. Yes it may be argued that in
many instances (for example the European court of Human rights, or the Supreme
court we have sought to legally establish a precedent) but this was only necessary
when fundamental rights were being abused, otherwise we would have no need to
seek arbitration through the courts.

Originally posted by RJHinds
If all of you JWs would join the Christian right, we could have a big effect on
the actions of this nation. For united we stand; divided we fall.

RJH go out and buy American Idiot by Greenday, its got a nice hand grenade on the
cover which should appeal to military types like yourself, put it in the CD player, pump
up the volume and listen to the first track, it will do you the world of good.

As for us, we are no part of this world, politics is corrupt and we want no part of it, its
in our view, satanic.

Originally posted by sonhouse
If the right wing truly takes over the US, I would be bound for Canada. And the US would go on an even steeper slope down the hills of history and become just another country with its internal squabbling meaningless to the outside world. It would be a disgusting place to live. You should read very carefully what Finnagan wrote about politics and religion. T ike that.

Take a read of this:

http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-04-effort-opinions.html

With the debt racking up to heaven and back, we will not be able to afford
to do real science or science fiction, like with evolution. Then we can bow
down to China and Iran as our gods of this world.

P.S. What do you expect the lefties to say?

The fact of the matter remains, application of the teachings of the Christ would
solve, in an instant, the many problems facing mankind, you have not nor can you
refute it with vain appeals to Americans or politics, We remain no part of this world.

You make a clear, political claim and then argue that this is not political.

and before I go, Paul's counsel to Christians

(Romans 13:5-7) There is therefore compelling reason for you people to be in
subjection, not only on account of that wrath but also on account of your
conscience.

perhaps you need to understand just why Paul wrote this and perhaps you may gain
an insight into the early Christians and their practices, rather than viewing events
through some kind of bastardization of the original.

Paul was highly political and in particular, sought to protect his new religion from too close association with the Jews, who were in regular, open and violent revolt against the Roman imperial authority. For the Romans, Jews were a serious nuisance, not capable of overthrowing them but refusing to behave and consantly interfering with or undermining authority. The Jews were indeed making converts all around the Roman World and this was something that provoked great hostility. To respectable Romans, they were seen as subversive. So despite the evident similarities and close links of Christians with Jews, Paul wanted to reassure potential Roman supporters that the Christians were different and would not be a threat.

He was not entirely successful because they were in fact a threat and did indeed get drawn into the same oppression directed against Jews. But this line of argument did create sufficient levels of support to protect the Christians and, in due course, to satisfy Constantine that it was politically useful to tolerate and indeed incorporate Christians into the Empire.

All political - a political strategy to gain political space and in time, political power.

Originally posted by sonhouse
I wonder if anyone took note of a nice police state action by the US Supreme court:
They have given police the right to strip search anyone for ANY violation, like having a broken tail light or some such. So we are bound for a police state already. I'm sure the right wing deadheads love it.

HalleluYah !!! 😏

Originally posted by Pianoman1
How right you are! You would all have a massive effect on the actions of this nation. FOR THE WORSE. I don't wish to enter into a playground squabble of "I'm right, you're wrong", that would be pathetic amongst intelligent adults, but any alignment of spiritual and political leadership, of whatever colour, cannot work, because the two are mutually exclusiv ...[text shortened]... s no place in today's enlightened world to force religion, or indeed politics, on anyone.

It looks as if we are heading toward our own destruction unless we quickly
come to our senses.

Originally posted by Pianoman1
How right you are. Living in England I feel every day an increasing sense of doom, an enfeeblement of the individual in the face of the police state. Like a juggernaut it gains inertia and renders us powerless with its extreme rightiwing bigotry. Thankfully, this side of the pond, we are not exposed to extreme religious fanaticism in the way you are. Yet.

It appears the left has you hood-winked like the Obama supporters here.
Satan is good at that.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Christian politics is your invention, not mine, it is clear that Christ set a precedent,
followed by first century Christians, to remain politically neutral. When on trial for
his life according to the gospel account, he refused to state anything to Pilate other
than that he was a King of a Kingdom which was no part of the world. Following this ...[text shortened]... ir practices, rather than viewing events
through some kind of bastardization of the original.

You are a complete idiot if you believe that Watchtower crap about Jesus
being neutral toward politics. I guess I should not be surprised since you
believe all their other crap just because they sweeten it with a little truth.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
RJH go out and buy American Idiot by Greenday, its got a nice hand grenade on the
cover which should appeal to military types like yourself, put it in the CD player, pump
up the volume and listen to the first track, it will do you the world of good.

As for us, we are no part of this world, politics is corrupt and we want no part of it, its
in our view, satanic.

Politics will remain corrupt as long as people like you sit on your butts and do nothing about it.

Originally posted by finnegan

The fact of the matter remains, application of the teachings of the Christ would
solve, in an instant, the many problems facing mankind, you have not nor can you
refute it with vain appeals to Americans or politics, We remain no part of this world.

You make a clear, political claim and then argue that this is not political.

[quote]

All political - a political strategy to gain political space and in time, political power.

i do ascribe to your self certified definition of political, nor to your attempts to project
that definition to legitimise your argument, biblically and historically, christians were
and remain no part of the political system, you can argue over semantics all you like,
this is a scripturally verifiable and historically substantiated incontrovertible FACT!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i do ascribe to your self certified definition of political, nor to your attempts to project
that definition to legitimise your argument, biblically and historically, christians were
and remain no part of the political system, you can argue over semantics all you like,
this is a scripturally verifiable and historically substantiated incontrovertible FACT!

I think Christians could at least vote, if nothing else. That's not too hard.
Think about it. Stop letting the Watchtower do your thinking for you and
become a real Christian. You can do it!

Originally posted by RJHinds
Politics will remain corrupt as long as people like you sit on your butts and do nothing about it.

we are no part of the world,

(John 15:17-19) . . .“These things I command you, that you love one another.  If the
world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you.  If you were part
of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part
of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, on this account the world hates
you. . .

your opinions mean very little in comparison to Christ's command to remain no part
of the world.