Originally posted by divegeester
The choice of religion is only important if you accept there is a god, and then only if that God is specific about his/her/its identity.

So, in the case of me, someone who does not accept that there is a separate-god-entity (I might use 'god' to describe simply everything that is), my original claim is true?

I suppose that was easy. 🙂

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
...it matters how I treat other people, myself, animals, and the earth.

Right?!

According to who?

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
So, in the case of me, someone who does not accept that there is a separate-god-entity (I might use 'god' to describe simply everything that is), my original claim is true?

I suppose that was easy. 🙂

Your claim is true for you and your view of me, but not for me and my view of you.

If there is no God, no creator, then all that matters is what we do to each other and ourselves. But then again, if there is no God, no creator, why should anything matter? Our time here on this little planet will pass in a breath in cosmic terms, no one will notice let alone care. Perhaps there is no one to notice or to care. I prefer to believe there is.

Originally posted by KellyJay
According to who?

Gah, you don't need to always look elsewhere for an opinion. Share your own. That's all I'm doing.

Originally posted by divegeester
Your claim is true for you and your view of me, but not for me and my view of you.

If there is no God, no creator, then all that matters is what we do to each other and ourselves. But then again, if there is no God, no creator, why should anything matter? Our time here on this little planet will pass in a breath in cosmic terms, no one will notice let alone care. Perhaps there is no one to notice or to care. I prefer to believe there is.

Sorry, but the statement that 'no one will notice or care' just seems blatantly false. For starters, the others that you might now mistreat because it "doesn't matter" will notice.

The real angst in the statement is that all things are just temporary. But why do things cease to matter simply because they are temporary? That doesn't make sense to me.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
Sorry, but the statement that 'no one will notice or care' just seems blatantly false. For starters, the others that you might now mistreat because it "doesn't matter" will notice.

The real angst in the statement is that all things are just temporary. But why do things cease to matter simply because they are temporary? That doesn't make sense to me.

Yes, short term behaviours do matter, to you and to me because of their impact on others. I was musing over the long-term relevance and "mattering" of our existence.

However, I do think that a religion can keep people from doing wrong, but equally can incite wrongdoing. In parallel I think that a lack of religion (belief) in a higher morality can liberate certain people to wrongdoing and for others it can be a liberation from oppression.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
Gah, you don't need to always look elsewhere for an opinion. Share your own. That's all I'm doing.

My opinion is ours don't matter if God is real, we need to His views not our own.

Originally posted by KellyJay
My opinion is ours don't matter if God is real, we need to His views not our own.

Who said anything about whether God was real or not? Not I.

Besides, your position is false. Even if you keep to God's views, you are also keeping to your own view that God is trustworthy.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
Who said anything about whether God was real or not? Not I.

Besides, your position is false. Even if you keep to God's views, you are also keeping to your own view that God is trustworthy.

Funny you asked for my opinion and I give it, and you still call it wrong.

Originally posted by divegeester
Yes, short term behaviours do matter, to you and to me because of their impact on others. I was musing over the long-term relevance and "mattering" of our existence.

However, I do think that a religion can keep people from doing wrong, but equally can incite wrongdoing. In parallel I think that a lack of religion (belief) in a higher morality can liberate certain people to wrongdoing and for others it can be a liberation from oppression.

If a religion in fact incites wrongdoing, then I contend the real problem is that said religious follower(s) stopped treating others well. The twisted religion is only a symptom.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Funny you asked for my opinion and I give it, and you still call it wrong.

I fail to see the humor in it. 😕

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
I fail to see the humor in it. 😕

🙂 I can only hope your kidding!

Originally posted by divegeester
Incorrect. "It doesn't matter"..."it (does) matter"...

A set of opposing statements.

That is a dichotomy (a rather trivial one) and not a "false dichotomy" one.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
If a religion in fact incites wrongdoing, then I contend the real problem is that said religious follower(s) stopped treating others well. The twisted religion is only a symptom.

This is uncharacteristic of you to dissect my post like this. You can see that I said religion can incite wrongdoing. I'm not a "religious" person in terms of traditions and ceremony and I don't belong to an organised religious denomination. Most Christian people I know treat people very well, better than non Christian people I know do. In fact some of the Christians I know are absolute salt of the earth types who would do anything for those around them. I look for and seek out this type of Chrisitan and I aspire to emulate their Christlike characteristics, although I readily admit I am far far from doing so.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
That is a dichotomy (a rather trivial one) and not a "false dichotomy" one.

My point was that the OP appeared to me to be making an either or premise. It looked like a false dichotomy to me. I'm not fussed to be right or wrong on that point. 🙂