Originally posted by robbie carrobieDiversionary tactics, writing around the topic, attacking the writer rather than addressing the content are all points in my favour. They cannot discuss it. You have to understand its a hard pill to swallow when someone shows you passages that turn your favourite doctrine, that you have held on to for so long, into nonsense. You have to sympathize with their plight.
good luck getting any sense out of them.
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Originally posted by sonshipYou well know that if you continue on into the Apostle Peter's discource you will read:
The passage [b]only underscores that FORGIVENESS is not the end goal of God's salvation. He did not save us for forgiveness's sake and not other. He desires a realm of government to exercise His divine kingship.
Like many passages it emphasizes that a God's government is the goal down the road from FORGIVENESS.
Peter says that "in this way th ...[text shortened]... coming out of abiding in the Lord which will not fail to provide a rich and bountiful entrance.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
This is a passage that you have so far been unable to refute. The clarity of the statement defies twisting and the only thing people do is to try to ignore it.
The meaning is clear. There are some Christians who fall away and it is better that they had not known the way of righteousness than to know it and turn away. How can such a statement be twisted to mean that they person will still get eternal life ? Its just not possible.
As for this mantra you constantly quote - ".. saved, yet so as through fire I will start another thread to comment on this.
Originally posted by Rajk999To know the way of righteousness and reject it does not seem to mean they were saved and then became unsaved. To me it seems to mean that they never accepted salvation even though they knew the way.
You well know that if you continue on into the Apostle Peter's discource you will read:
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better ...[text shortened]... uote - "[i].. saved, yet so as through fire I will start another thread to comment on this.
Originally posted by RJHindsPeter is addressing converted Christians in his writings. Do you know who is saved and who is not? I dont think so. Apparently some Christians here [maybe not you], seem to think they have the ability to know this. Jaywill/sonship and several others claim that they know that once someone accepts Christ with their mouth they are saved eternally. Is all a sham.
To know the way of righteousness and reject it does not seem to mean they were saved and then became unsaved. To me it seems to mean that they never accepted salvation even though they knew the way.
Originally posted by Rajk999Nope, I don't attempt to justify myself, I will defer to Jesus to make me
Maybe thats because you people keep talking about how you doing it right.
right. I hope your right with God too, not attempting to say your not. As I
pointed out to you, I agree with much of what you say, I'd even go as far
to say the vast majority of things you say.
Kelly
Originally posted by Rajk999No I have never claimed to know who is saved and who is not. I have never even claimed that I am saved. I have only claimed that I am a Christian and believe in Jesus as the Savior.
Peter is addressing converted Christians in his writings. Do you know who is saved and who is not? I dont think so. Apparently some Christians here [maybe not you], seem to think they have the ability to know this. Jaywill/sonship and several others claim that they know that once someone accepts Christ with their mouth they are saved eternally. Is all a sham.
I was only pointing out that this scripture that you quoted does not seem to support the idea that one can be saved and then become unsaved.
Originally posted by Rajk999As I pointed out we each read the scripture and can quote it to make a
Peter is giving his opinion on how Christians should live.
I quoted Peter. I guess you did not realise that.
By the way Christ said the same thing.
So did James and John
Paul did as well but Christians keep ignoring it.
If you think I am giving my own personal opinion then kindly quote what I said that Peter did not in the Bible say.
point. I do believe the number of us who when we do quote scripture do
not tell those we are talking to that if they disagree with us, they are
on par with disagreeing with Peter, Christ, James, John, Paul and so on.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayI hope all Christians are right with God, but thats between them and God. Its good to hear that you agree with much of what I say. I suppose if I could figure out exactly what we agree on and disagree on it would avoid some unnecessary to and froing.
Nope, I don't attempt to justify myself, I will defer to Jesus to make me
right. I hope your right with God too, not attempting to say your not. As I
pointed out to you, I agree with much of what you say, I'd even go as far
to say the vast majority of things you say.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayIn Ephesians 1 & 2, Paul speaks of the process by which God calls the saints and how they are saved through faith in Christ. Some Christians think that this is the end. Im saved and I cannot lose my salvation... nothing more to do. Unfortunately for those who think along these lines, the Apostles went on to write of converted Christians and saints becoming entangled in the sins of the world and falling away. It is better if they had not known the way of righteousness.
Read them, agree with them, you had a point?
Kelly
If you continue reading on through Ephesians 3, 4, 5, and 6 , these speak of life which those called by God ARE REQUIRED TO LIVE. Not really things that some Christians are fond of reading about. These 4 chapters are a long version of what I quoted in 2 Peter 1 in the opening post.