@secondson said
So according to you Jesus taught that there are classes of Christians. Those that know the mysteries of the kingdom, like you, and those that don't, like me, sonship and others.

And you believe God hides the truth, even though it is written out in scripture.

And you think that I, sonship and others condemn the keeping of the commandments of Christ, even though none of us has ever said that.

And you categorize Christians. You've learned well from Satan.

@secondson said
The passage I understand. It's you that's unclear.

@rajk999 said
Wrong. Jesus categorized PEOPLE, who HEAR the word of God. In the very same chapter of Matt 13, what prefaced ToOs post is this

And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow; And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up: Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: ...[text shortened]... edfold, some sixty, some thirty.
(Matthew 13:18-23 KJV)

You read but you cannot understand.

The subject matter is:

James 2:14-26

Chiefly (to my way of thinking as the OP writer)

1.) The truth or non-truth of "faith without works is dead"

2.) Does "Faith without works is dead" directly contradict Paul's teaching of Justification by faith in, ie. Romans and Galatians?

I will exhort more effort to refrain from getting down to merely personal remarks.

@ThinkOfOne

‘YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND;

@thinkofone said
If you are unable to see, hear or UNDERSTAND, then you are unable to see, hear or UNDERSTAND.

That much is clear.

@rajk999 said
Wrong. Jesus categorized PEOPLE, who HEAR the word of God. In the very same chapter of Matt 13, what prefaced ToOs post is this

And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow; And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up: Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: ...[text shortened]... edfold, some sixty, some thirty.
(Matthew 13:18-23 KJV)

You read but you cannot understand.

Question then:

Is it POSSIBLE that James was speaking to an audience which was still AWAITING to be justified before God to have eternal life ?

Could he be writing "faith without works is dead" because some of his audience had NOT, I say NOT been recipients of eternal life YET?

Ie. He is informing them that they are spiritually still without eternal life of God?

I do not think so at all. That is because he writes before chapter 2 that he and his audience have been already BROUGHT FORTH by the divine Father.

"He brought us forth by the word of truth, purposing that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures." (James 1:18)

I will provide my own pushback (to my own argument).

There is a possible weakness in my argument that verse 18 proves that the ones brought forth by "the Father of lights" have the life of God, the eternal life IF we argue that in Matthew the Jesus speaks of "your Father" to His disciples before they have received the redemptive death of Christ and received into them the Holy Spirit.

Afterall, James addresses his letter not to the church per se but to "the twelve tribes in the dispersion" (1:1) .

I have volunteered to give a couple of contrarians some ammunition. Let me see if anyone does something with it.

My leaning though is toward the understanding that the audience of James are Christians, redeemed, born of the Father through the Holy Spirit.

James is not as clear as Paul about the church and its distinction from "the twelve tribes".

This is mainly a HISTORICAL matter as the new covenant church was emerging as distinct from Judaism.

@SecondSon says

Trolls in wolf's clothing are they that never learn what the scriptures teach. Especially with regard to the doctrine of salvation.

Ephesians 2:4-9
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

There is nothing indicated in those verses that salvation comes by any other means except by grace, and clearly states that "works" don't save.

But trolls in wolf's clothing propagate a gospel of "works" for salvation, which Paul, in Galatians, calls "another gospel" which is a perverted gospel, and pronounces anathema on anyone that does.

I argue that James chapter one shows that the recipients of his letter are NOT waiting to be justified vertically before God. But some of them as hearers of the word only were self deluded.

They are in need of being justified horizontally (mainly) before the observing other saints and before the observing world.

After the example of the demons who believe but are not justified James goes on to Abraham. That is, how what Abraham DID as a work justified him rather than just his faith.

"Was not Abraham our father justified by works in that he offered up Isaac his son upon the altar? (2:21)

You see that faith worked together with his works, and by these works faith was perfected. (v.22)

And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, And Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him as righteousness; and he was called the friend of God. (v.23)

You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith only." (v.24)

@secondson said
You are mistaken. Jesus recognized and perceived people for who and what they are.

Satan categorizes, labels and accuses. That's where you learned it.

@secondson said
@SecondSon says

Trolls in wolf's clothing are they that never learn what the scriptures teach. Especially with regard to the doctrine of salvation.

Ephesians 2:4-9
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) And hath raised us up toget ...[text shortened]... ns, calls "another gospel" which is a perverted gospel, and pronounces anathema on anyone that does.

@thinkofone said
Luke 6
43“For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit. 44“For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. 45“The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart.

@sonship said
I argue that James chapter one shows that the recipients of his letter are NOT waiting to be justified vertically before God. But some of them as hearers of the word only were self deluded.

They are in need of being justified horizontally (mainly) before the observing other saints and before the observing world.

After the example of the demons who believ ...[text shortened]... God. (v.23)

You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith only." (v.24) [/b] [/quote]