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The point was for people to listen to HIS voice. Not the voice of others. It is HIS voice and his voice alone that His sheep follow.
John 10
1“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. 2“But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. 3“To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4“When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5“A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.”
This explains, I think, also why you will never mention another name as an exemplary disciple of Jesus.
When Jesus said "He who has ears to hear, let him hear" does He intend that we should hear YOU ..., ThinkOfOne ?
If Paul, you equate to one of a thieves or a robber or a "stranger," not caring about the Lord's sheep, and climbing up an illegitimate way to be among the sheep, would "let him hear" apply MORE to YOU then to the Apostle Paul ?
@sonship saidIt is HIS voice and his voice alone that His sheep follow.
@ThinkOfOne
[quote] The point was for people to listen to HIS voice. Not the voice of others. It is HIS voice and his voice alone that His sheep follow.
John 10
1“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. 2“But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. 3“ ...[text shortened]... the sheep, would "let him hear" apply MORE to YOU then to the Apostle Paul ?
John 10
1“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. 2“But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. 3“To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4“When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5“A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.”
“Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
"He who has ears, let him hear".
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@ThinkOfOne
Where in there is your answer?
I take it as basically a Yes. Jesus taught that we should hear YOU - ThinkOfOne before we hear the Apostle Paul, whom men should not listen to.
Do you teach that today the VOICE of Jesus Christ who is resurrected and alive, can be heard ? I think you will never admit that you hold that Christ is DEAD.
@sonship saidJesus emphasized the importance of HIS words time and time again. The words He HAS SPOKEN (past tense):
@ThinkOfOne
Where in there is your answer?
I take it as basically a Yes. Jesus taught that we should hear YOU - ThinkOfOne before we hear the Apostle Paul, whom men should not listen to.
Do you teach that today the VOICE of Jesus Christ who is resurrected and alive, can be heard ? I think you will never admit that you hold that Christ is DEAD.
"For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice." John 18
"the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." John 6
"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day." John 12
"He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me. These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you." John 14
"If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine" John 8
It is HIS voice and his voice alone that HIS sheep follow.
"He who has ears, let him hear".
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I said to you that you argued your point well. But it is not good enough.
Only if you RESTRICT the words of the New Testament from FURTHER speaking does it give someone ground to say ie.
A man either has a evil nature to produce evil fruit or good nature to produce good fruit."
According to Jesus, whatever "fruit" is being produced by a given "tree" is either all "good fruit" or all "bad fruit".
“For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit."
"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire".
Jesus is very explicit and very clear about this.
My offering - Rom. 12:2
2 Cor. 3:18
Colossian 3:10
Eph. 4:15
Colossians 1:6 ? to go beyond the imposed RESTRICTION of ToO is not attended to "refute" Jesus. It is to refute ToO's interpretation aimed at denying - "transformation" .
ToO's emphasis on "Let him hear" is actually his attempt to say "let him hear only this restricted few words" so that he can deny that one saved by Christ undergoes "transformation".
Matthew 12 :43 does not refute transformation - that one saved in Christ's salvation can simultaneously have for a time TWO natures.
Only by a clever restriction and insistence that we "hear, if we have ears" ToO's restriction can this kind of wrong teaching be propagated. And it is basically destructive to faith in Christ. It is an interpretation which has, IMO, an aim to destroy faith and following and HEARING really the teaching of Christ.
The challenge I will now explore is whether Jesus by saying - "Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree corrupt and its fruit corrupt, for by the fruit the tree is known" could have meant He taught against transformation.
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In the very same book of Matthew Jesus tells His disciples -
" ... I will BUILD My church and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it." (16:18) .
Here Jesus didn't say that He would CREATE His church such that instantaneously she switches from one nature totally to another nature totally. But He will "BUILD" His church.
To build His church is a process which means the work to produce what He wants is gradual and ongoing. The process of building may be slowed, it may be frustrated temporarily. But eventually the building is accomplished and completed.
This speaks of the church universal.
The practical church to which a disciple can take his problem with another Christian brother is in 18:15-17
"Moreover if your BROTHER sins against you, go reprove him between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. (v.15)
But if he does not hear you, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. (v.16)
And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church' and if he refuses to hear the church, let him be to you just like the Gentile and the tax collector." (v.17)
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1.) If the Christian brothers are EITHER of a good nature or an evil nature, such a situation could not happen. If the constituents of the church are all of a good nature totally that can produce only good fruit, then HOW could there ever be an offense?
2.) Two Christian brothers, one the offended and one the offender, cannot take their dilemma to the universal church. The universal church contains every brother and sister in Christ from all time and place throughout history. So in 18:17 the problem is practically handled by the local church.
3.) Again if the local church consists only of people who possess a good nature and can ONLY produce good fruit then such a situation could not happen. There arises an offense PROBABLY because one brother in an instance obeyed that evil part and failed to obey that good part, BOTH of which he possesses at the same time.
4.) Tell the problem to the church does not mean everyone in the church has to decide on the problem. Practically, Jesus must have meant to tell it to the responsible overseers of the local church.
"And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to hear the church ..." .
Well the church is in the process of being BUILT. And if the church comes completely built from conception then any offending brother would obviously not have a nature which was able to offend. He could only produce good fruit.
If everyone in the local church possesses a good nature ONLY the church would only have to say:
"Why are you offended? What do you expect from one who has a nature which can only sin against men."
Jesus KNEW and by history we know that in the practical church which He is building as part of building the universal church the possibility of Christian brothers to have a failure to live the good nature will occur.
Of course eventually the church will be BUILT for He will BUILD ( as a process) His church and the gates of all kinds of death, including the sinning old nature, will be conquered.