1. Joined
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    24 Jan '08 23:33
    i have once heard a theory that in the bible, jesus is lucifer. idk where this conclusion has come from but if anyone knows how this may be possible, it is very interesting to me and i would like to be informed.
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    24 Jan '08 23:51
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    i have once heard a theory that in the bible, jesus is lucifer. idk where this conclusion has come from but if anyone knows how this may be possible, it is very interesting to me and i would like to be informed.
    im gonna answer myself now that i have found a little bit of information on it myself, but apparently it is said at one point in the bible that god is the morning star and so is satan, correct? what does a christian have to say about this? i have heard people claim satan is god's alter ego.
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    24 Jan '08 23:55
    It might be helpful if you quoted the passage you're referring to.

    I don't think the Bible ever explicitly equates Lucifer with Satan, either.
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    25 Jan '08 00:02
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    i have once heard a theory that in the bible, jesus is lucifer. idk where this conclusion has come from but if anyone knows how this may be possible, it is very interesting to me and i would like to be informed.
    It is a Mormon doctrine. It is not in the Bible.
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    25 Jan '08 00:12
    i will find a credible source, it does not say "satan is god." it just mentions that satan did x and later in the bible it says god also did x. ill brb when i have found a source.
  6. Subscriberno1marauder
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    25 Jan '08 00:27
    Originally posted by josephw
    It is a Mormon doctrine. It is not in the Bible.
    No it is not a "Mormon doctrine".
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    25 Jan '08 00:39
    I found this page, which might clarify things, but I can't really vouch for its veracity:

    http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml

    It seems a lot of confusion stems from the fact that Christians, and especially Mormons, might have jumped the gun in assuming that Lucifer and Satan were supposed to be the same figure.
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    25 Jan '08 00:39
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=5O2OoLmVRiU

    this is NOT a credible source, it is the best thing i could come up w/ because i am busy right now. it is a short 3 minute video and im sure you could check it in your own bible. i will find a better video when i have time, or perhaps somebody else knows it better than i do but i have to go.
  9. Subscriberno1marauder
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    25 Jan '08 00:40
    Originally posted by darthmix
    It might be helpful if you quoted the passage you're referring to.

    I don't think the Bible ever explicitly equates Lucifer with Satan, either.
    Isaiah 14:12: How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst lay low the nations!

    This generally thought to refer to Satan.

    Revelation 22:16: 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright, the morning star.


    Different authors about a thousand years apart; what do you expect?
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    25 Jan '08 00:46
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Isaiah 14:12: How art thou fallen from heaven, [b]O day-star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst lay low the nations!

    This generally thought to refer to Satan.

    Revelation 22:16: 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of Davi ...[text shortened]... ing star.[/b]


    Different authors about a thousand years apart; what do you expect?[/b]
    I know, but apparently there's debate about whether the Isaiah passage was originally intended to refer to Satan. At least some Hebrew scholars contend that the passage actually refers to a particular Babylonian king.
  11. Subscriberno1marauder
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    25 Jan '08 01:091 edit
    Originally posted by darthmix
    I know, but apparently there's debate about whether the Isaiah passage was originally intended to refer to Satan. At least some Hebrew scholars contend that the passage actually refers to a particular Babylonian king.
    "Christians" esp. of the Pauline-Lutheran persuasion believe Isaiah 14:12 refers to Lucifer or Satan or the Devil. Jews don't believe in any Devil who was cast down from Heaven (they believe Satan does God's bidding; see http://www.beingjewish.com/basics/satan.html), so the passage couldn't possibly refer to such a non-existent being.


    EDIT: Catholic tradition says this about Isaiah 14:12:

    This parable of the prophet is expressly directed against the King of Babylon, but both the early Fathers and later Catholic commentators agree in understanding it as applying with deeper significance to the fall of the rebel angel. And the older commentators generally consider that this interpretation is confirmed by the words of Our Lord to his disciples : "I saw Satan like lightning falling from heaven " ( Luke 10:18 ).

    http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=10514
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    25 Jan '08 01:28
    w/ god being lucifer (excluding the possibility it is not translated correctly), what does this have to say about christianity?
  13. Melbourne, Australia
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    25 Jan '08 02:15
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    w/ god being lucifer (excluding the possibility it is not translated correctly), what does this have to say about christianity?
    Exactly what sort of response are you expecting?

    Atheists will say ... duh!
    Christians will say... you're an idiot!
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    25 Jan '08 02:21
    Originally posted by amannion
    Exactly what sort of response are you expecting?

    Atheists will say ... duh!
    Christians will say... you're an idiot!
    well there has to be a significance to every truth, it makes me wonder what is the significance to this (assuming that it is truth).
  15. Melbourne, Australia
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    25 Jan '08 02:30
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    well there has to be a significance to every truth, it makes me wonder what is the significance to this (assuming that it is truth).
    Why?
    Why is this a truth, and why does truth have to be significant?

    I just took a big dump. That's truth, but it isn't particularly significant.
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