1. Donationrwingett
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    15 Oct '06 20:45
    Has anyone else seen this movie yet? I saw it today, and found it to be a horrifying film. A whole generation of evangelical zealots in the making. It's the Hitler Youth all over again, but with different slogans. They swap out the "Heil Hitler" for a "Praise Jesus", but it's the exact same dynamic at work. The preacher seemed to think that the willingness of young Islamic radicals to lay down their lives for Islam was something that Christian youth should aspire to. The way they'd work the young crowd into a frenzy is straight out of Orwell's 1984 and its "Two Minutes Hate."

    If these people get in charge, we're all doomed.
  2. Joined
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    15 Oct '06 22:301 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Has anyone else seen this movie yet? I saw it today, and found it to be a horrifying film. A whole generation of evangelical zealots in the making. It's the Hitler Youth all over again, but with different slogans. They swap out the "Heil Hitler" for a "Praise Jesus", but it's the exact same dynamic at work. The preacher seemed to think that the willingness [/i] and its "Two Minutes Hate."

    If these people get in charge, we're all doomed.
    I saw the movie a week or two ago. It's harrowing to see how dangerous those evangelical morons are. I truly feel sorry for those kids -- so much of their parents' own agenda thrust on their shoulders.

    I like the part toward the end when Becky Fischer said (on the radio talkshow) something to the effect "You can call it brainwashing if you want, but...."

    Well, no, there is no "but". And we can call it brainwashing because that is precisely what it is.
  3. Cape Town
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    16 Oct '06 07:27
    Originally posted by rwingett
    If these people get in charge, we're all doomed.
    The same applies to the Islamic youth and Hitler Youth you mention. However it takes more than brainwashed youth to do that much damage. It takes a fairly large group of organizers (not brainwashed), a suitable 'cause' to pursuade new youth to join, and in many cases a week family structure.
    In the case of Hitler and the current Islamic terrorist youths, there were (and is) a fairly large proportion of society which support thier actions.
    This is however quite possible with Christian groups as there is a strong tendancy for Christians to support each other even when it is obvious that the person(s) being supported are involved in very unchristian activity. (Bush for example)
    In my home country the former president was very successfull at bribing churches and got a very large proportion of his support just by declaring Zambia a 'Christian Nation'.
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    16 Oct '06 08:431 edit
    A reasonably balanced report on the movie:

    http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/entertainment/movies/15747854.htm

    And no, I haven't seen it yet.

    EDIT: Quite amazing how a bunch of kids singing religious hymns suddenly seems to become "Hitler Youth" for some people.
  5. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    16 Oct '06 08:47
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    A reasonably balanced report on the movie:

    http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/entertainment/movies/15747854.htm

    And no, I haven't seen it yet.

    EDIT: Quite amazing how a bunch of kids singing religious hymns suddenly seems to become "Hitler Youth" for some people.
    You haven't seen it yet, so why are you criticising the criticism?
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    16 Oct '06 08:501 edit
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    You haven't seen it yet, so why are you criticising the criticism?
    Because the criticism seems to focus entirely on a religious zeal = Hitler Youth dynamic. If you had the Hitler Youth everytime kids got enthusiastic about a project, you'd have very dull schools, would'nt you?

    If RWillis has specific connections between the HY and JC, he should've posted them.

    I don't need to see the film to evaluate that his argument is fallacious.

    EDIT: The only (possible) connection he draws is between these kids and young Islamic radicals (implying a Christian jihad or something). Quite ingenious - and quite disingenous. No one thinks "laying your life down for the Gospel" or Christian martyrdom is the same thing as the suicide-bombing variety.
  7. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    16 Oct '06 08:50
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    EDIT: Quite amazing how a bunch of kids singing religious hymns suddenly seems to become "Hitler Youth" for some people.
    Astounding how all you see is "a bunch of kids singing hymns".
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    16 Oct '06 08:54
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Astounding how all you see is "a bunch of kids singing hymns".
    If there's more to it then someone's got to tell me what it is. As things stand, I don't know more about this specific Jesus camp to distinguish it from any other one -- where, yes, kids just sing hymns and have sweets. And how RWillis manages to jump from that to "Hitler Youth" is still a mystery to me.
  9. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    16 Oct '06 08:58
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    If there's more to it then someone's got to tell me what it is. As things stand, I don't know more about this specific Jesus camp to distinguish it from any other one -- where, yes, kids just sing hymns and have sweets. And how RWillis manages to jump from that to "Hitler Youth" is still a mystery to me.
    Did you read the article you linked?

    Led by Fischer, the kids preach, pray and speak in tongues. They're encouraged to repent their sins, to cradle plastic fetuses and to ask God to guide President Bush in nominating anti-abortion judges. Footage of them praying in front of a cardboard cutout of the president ranks among the more incendiary moments.
  10. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    16 Oct '06 09:05
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Did you read the article you linked?

    [b]Led by Fischer, the kids preach, pray and speak in tongues. They're encouraged to repent their sins, to cradle plastic fetuses and to ask God to guide President Bush in nominating anti-abortion judges. Footage of them praying in front of a cardboard cutout of the president ranks among the more incendiary moments.
    [/b]
    "Instead of telling ghost stories around the campfire, children speak in tongues and bless a cutout of President Bush.
    ...
    "I feel like we're kind of being trained to be warriors, only in a much funner way," one camper said."

    http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2496622

    I'm reminded of veldskool, a holiday camp for schoolkids organized by the apartheid government, combining fun camping activities with deliberate doses of government propaganda. We were shown films extolling Christian values and identifying such enemies of the state as communists, communists and communists, in all their various fiendish guises. Of course being godless English schoolchildren we laughed at the khaki-clad bearded Oom Tjaart et al who were trying their best to indoctrinate us, but I wonder what the effect of veldskool on good young Calvinist Afrikaners was.
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    16 Oct '06 09:05
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    EDIT: Quite amazing how a bunch of kids singing religious hymns suddenly seems to become "Hitler Youth" for some people.
    His comment was based on seeing the whole film not just on "a bunch of kids singing religious hymns".
    However I have personally observed a cirtain amount of "mob psycology" in some church youth groups, where the pastor can tell the youth anything and they believe it without question. I also believe that one of the main motivations for youth joining such groups is very similar to the motivations for joining other groups including gangs and Hitlers youth.
    rwingetts concern was not to claim that they are currently acting like Hitlers Youth but rather that the amount of control exerted on them by thier leaders makes them dangerous to the rest of society.
  12. London
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    16 Oct '06 09:14
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Did you read the article you linked?

    [b]Led by Fischer, the kids preach, pray and speak in tongues. They're encouraged to repent their sins, to cradle plastic fetuses and to ask God to guide President Bush in nominating anti-abortion judges. Footage of them praying in front of a cardboard cutout of the president ranks among the more incendiary moments.
    [/b]
    Yes I did and I haven't seen anything particularly "incendiary" yet.
  13. London
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    16 Oct '06 09:16
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    His comment was based on seeing the whole film not just on "a bunch of kids singing religious hymns".
    However I have personally observed a cirtain amount of "mob psycology" in some church youth groups, where the pastor can tell the youth anything and they believe it without question. I also believe that one of the main motivations for youth joining such ...[text shortened]... unt of control exerted on them by thier leaders makes them dangerous to the rest of society.
    Isn't that true of any group situation involving kids? Couldn't you, for instance, say the same about the Boy Scouts or the Soccer Team? Are you suggesting we do away with these as well?
  14. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    16 Oct '06 09:17
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    Yes I did and I haven't seen anything particularly "incendiary" yet.
    Did you find anything other than hymns?
  15. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    16 Oct '06 09:18
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    Isn't that true of any group situation involving kids? Couldn't you, for instance, say the same about the Boy Scouts or the Soccer Team? Are you suggesting we do away with these as well?
    I'd be very concerned if my local scout troop added religion and politics to normal scouting activities. Wouldn't you?
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