From John 17 :12
While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
Judas was doomed so that scripture would be fulfilled. This is what Jesus said, so is it true?
Originally posted by @eladarSo who caused Judas to betray Jesus?
From John 17 :12
While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
Judas was doomed so that scripture would be fulfilled. This is what Jesus said, so is it true?
Originally posted by @galveston75He blames Jesus, like he always does.
So who caused Judas to betray Jesus?
He also claims Jesus was a sexist and a racist, presumably to 'make it okay' that he is also.
Originally posted by @suzianneIt would have been interesting if you'd debated Eladar on the matters of sexism and racism (as they pertain to Jesus), which he backed with selective references to scripture. Instead, you seemed to think that heaps of 'Suzianne's scorn' was enough to win the day on this debate/discussion board. No doubt your case would have been stronger than Eladar's, but you didn't make any case. It was a pity. I'd like to have seen Eladar pushed by you; instead, you just insulted him and avoided tackling the 'arguments' he made.
[Eladar] also claims Jesus was a sexist and a racist, presumably to 'make it okay' that he is also.
Originally posted by @galveston75Anyway at John 13:2 it explains........
So who caused Judas to betray Jesus?
The evening meal was going on, and the Devil had already put it into the heart of Judas Is·carʹi·ot,+ the son of Simon, to betray him
Originally posted by @galveston75None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
Anyway at John 13:2 it explains........
The evening meal was going on, and the Devil had already put it into the heart of Judas Is·carʹi·ot,+ the son of Simon, to betray him
And Satan entered Judas after Judas ate the bread from Jesus' hand.
Originally posted by @eladarTrue. The only ones for sure that are lost so to say,would no doubt be Adam & Eve. Their sin was willful and was done while they were in a perfect state. Jehovah warned them directly and told them what would happen.Their sin was deliberate and the bible explains that with that type of sin there is no forgiveness.
None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
And Satan entered Judas after Judas ate the bread from Jesus' hand.
There have been some truly wicked humans that have lived in the past and even today. It would seem that with their wickedness being so bad that there would be no salvation for them no matter what. But again the bible says that death wipes out sins with no mention of how terrible they were.
But humans are not judges on these matters or eternity, only Jehovah is as the bible says he is the "ready of hearts". This is something no human is capable of to the depth he can.
Originally posted by @eladarDo you think describing someone as "doomed" when telling a story about something that happened in the past and which has already finished, and where the outcome is known, is the same as describing someone as "doomed" in the It is his fate. It has to happen. He does not have a choice. He has been chosen by God to blah blah sense when an outcome is not yet known?
It means he was doomed. It was his fate. It had to happen. He did not have a choice. He was chosen by God to be list for fulfillment of scripture.
Originally posted by @fmfThis prayer was before Jesus was arrested. Judas had not officially betraued him yet.
Do you think describing someone as "doomed" when telling a story about something that happened in the past and which has already finished, and where the outcome is known, is the same as describing someone as "doomed" in the It is his fate. It has to happen. He does not have a choice. He has been chosen by God to blah blah sense when an outcome is not yet known?
In the context of what Jesus said, the disciples were chosen by God, including Judas.
Originally posted by @eladarIt is to me revealing that there is a second 'gospel' of Judas, that did not make the cut in 414 or so AD. So both stories were around for hundreds of years but the political shenanigans of the 'Council of Nicea' which was convened to decide which books were written by god or not and to be now written in stone and any other books or gospel is rejected. Note that: Rejected by PEOPLE.
This prayer was before Jesus was arrested. Judas had not officially betraued him yet.
In the context of what Jesus said, the disciples were chosen by God, including Judas.
So now it is heresy to say the gospel of Judas is real, but in the year 300 AD both were around.
So how do you reconcile the two books?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Judas
That version says Jesus told Jude he had to be the one to give Jesus away so the prophecy would be fulfilled. The bottom line there being Judas was not a bad guy but doing the bidding of the lord.