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    10 Dec '17 15:57
    From John 17 :12

    While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

    Judas was doomed so that scripture would be fulfilled. This is what Jesus said, so is it true?
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    10 Dec '17 18:59
    Originally posted by @eladar
    ”Judas was doomed so that scripture would be fulfilled.”

    This is what Jesus said, so is it true?
    That is not what Jesus said, it is what you said.
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    10 Dec '17 20:45
    Originally posted by @eladar
    From John 17 :12

    While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

    Judas was doomed so that scripture would be fulfilled. This is what Jesus said, so is it true?
    So who caused Judas to betray Jesus?
  4. SubscriberSuzianne
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    10 Dec '17 22:43
    Originally posted by @galveston75
    So who caused Judas to betray Jesus?
    He blames Jesus, like he always does.

    He also claims Jesus was a sexist and a racist, presumably to 'make it okay' that he is also.
  5. SubscriberFMF
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    10 Dec '17 23:04
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    [Eladar] also claims Jesus was a sexist and a racist, presumably to 'make it okay' that he is also.
    It would have been interesting if you'd debated Eladar on the matters of sexism and racism (as they pertain to Jesus), which he backed with selective references to scripture. Instead, you seemed to think that heaps of 'Suzianne's scorn' was enough to win the day on this debate/discussion board. No doubt your case would have been stronger than Eladar's, but you didn't make any case. It was a pity. I'd like to have seen Eladar pushed by you; instead, you just insulted him and avoided tackling the 'arguments' he made.
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    10 Dec '17 23:38
    Originally posted by @galveston75
    So who caused Judas to betray Jesus?
    Anyway at John 13:2 it explains........

    The evening meal was going on, and the Devil had already put it into the heart of Judas Is·carʹi·ot,+ the son of Simon, to betray him
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    11 Dec '17 00:31
    Originally posted by @galveston75
    Anyway at John 13:2 it explains........

    The evening meal was going on, and the Devil had already put it into the heart of Judas Is·carʹi·ot,+ the son of Simon, to betray him
    None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.


    And Satan entered Judas after Judas ate the bread from Jesus' hand.
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    11 Dec '17 00:32
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    That is not what Jesus said, it is what you said.
    None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.


    If Judas was not the disciple doomed who was?
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    11 Dec '17 01:18
    Originally posted by @eladar
    None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.


    And Satan entered Judas after Judas ate the bread from Jesus' hand.
    True. The only ones for sure that are lost so to say,would no doubt be Adam & Eve. Their sin was willful and was done while they were in a perfect state. Jehovah warned them directly and told them what would happen.Their sin was deliberate and the bible explains that with that type of sin there is no forgiveness.
    There have been some truly wicked humans that have lived in the past and even today. It would seem that with their wickedness being so bad that there would be no salvation for them no matter what. But again the bible says that death wipes out sins with no mention of how terrible they were.
    But humans are not judges on these matters or eternity, only Jehovah is as the bible says he is the "ready of hearts". This is something no human is capable of to the depth he can.
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    11 Dec '17 02:58
    Originally posted by @eladar
    None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.


    If Judas was not the disciple doomed who was?
    So he was “doomed”, so what?
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    11 Dec '17 11:26
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    So he was “doomed”, so what?
    It means he was doomed. It was his fate. It had to happen. He did not have a choice. He was chosen by God to be list for fulfillment of scripture.
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    11 Dec '17 11:53
    Originally posted by @eladar
    It means he was doomed. It was his fate. It had to happen. He did not have a choice. He was chosen by God to be list for fulfillment of scripture.
    Like Jesus himself was. In fact:

    Romans 9:21-22
    Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?
    What if God, intending to show His wrath and make His power known, bore with great patience the vessels of His wrath, prepared for destruction?
  13. SubscriberFMF
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    11 Dec '17 11:55
    Originally posted by @eladar
    It means he was doomed. It was his fate. It had to happen. He did not have a choice. He was chosen by God to be list for fulfillment of scripture.
    Do you think describing someone as "doomed" when telling a story about something that happened in the past and which has already finished, and where the outcome is known, is the same as describing someone as "doomed" in the It is his fate. It has to happen. He does not have a choice. He has been chosen by God to blah blah sense when an outcome is not yet known?
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    11 Dec '17 13:35
    Originally posted by @fmf
    Do you think describing someone as "doomed" when telling a story about something that happened in the past and which has already finished, and where the outcome is known, is the same as describing someone as "doomed" in the It is his fate. It has to happen. He does not have a choice. He has been chosen by God to blah blah sense when an outcome is not yet known?
    This prayer was before Jesus was arrested. Judas had not officially betraued him yet.

    In the context of what Jesus said, the disciples were chosen by God, including Judas.
  15. Subscribersonhouse
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    11 Dec '17 13:44
    Originally posted by @eladar
    This prayer was before Jesus was arrested. Judas had not officially betraued him yet.

    In the context of what Jesus said, the disciples were chosen by God, including Judas.
    It is to me revealing that there is a second 'gospel' of Judas, that did not make the cut in 414 or so AD. So both stories were around for hundreds of years but the political shenanigans of the 'Council of Nicea' which was convened to decide which books were written by god or not and to be now written in stone and any other books or gospel is rejected. Note that: Rejected by PEOPLE.

    So now it is heresy to say the gospel of Judas is real, but in the year 300 AD both were around.

    So how do you reconcile the two books?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Judas

    That version says Jesus told Jude he had to be the one to give Jesus away so the prophecy would be fulfilled. The bottom line there being Judas was not a bad guy but doing the bidding of the lord.
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