Originally posted by @rajk999Redemption
Im waiting. I know why you dont want to answer.
Because your church interpretation of 'it is finished', is a pile of nonsense.
It is a fabrication and a twisting of the truth.
it has no basis in bible teachings.
And you well know that the minute that you start to post unbiblical nonsense i will shoot it down
Come on .. make my day .. Im waiting.
John 3:14
And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up.
Hebrews 10:7-10
Then I said, 'Here I am - it is written about me in the scroll - I have come to do your will, O God." First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made). Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
John 1:29
Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
Romans 4:25
Who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.
Hebrews 9:28
So Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many.
1 Corinthians 15:3
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures.
1 Peter 1:18, 19
Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.
Galatians 3:13
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love toward us, in that while we were sinners, Christ died for us.
John13:34,35
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
That's just scratching the surface. When Jesus said "it is finished" it was in reference to the completion of all that was prophesied concerning His first advent.
Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Jesus did it all, and there's not one wit we can add to His cross that washes us clean of all trespasses. To anyone that teaches anything contrary to the verses quoted above;
Philippians 3:18
(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
-Removed-Come on, tiger, it’s not hard to figure out. rajk thinks Christ’s sacrifice covered original sin but only an individual’s sins up to the time that individual accepted Christ. rajk thinks any sins committed after an individual accepts Christ are not covered.
So, in rajk’s world view, the only people capable of entering the Kingdom of God are those who accept Christ five seconds before they die.
-Removed-All sins are automatically covered until one accepts Christ. Thereafter it depends. Christ is a clean slate. a new book, if a life of sin continues after, then Christ will judge. There is no automatic eternal life. Paul said it clearly. .. with words like cut off, burned, destroyed. Some Christians twist these passages but they lack understanding.
Originally posted by @dj2beckerThe wise man does not cherry pick and take one verse out of a whole book and thinks that alone tells the whole story. The whole book of Ephesians explains the process of eternal life. I have explained it before. Paul said
Still waiting for your interpretation of Ephesians 2:8, Raj.
- Ephesians are saved from a life of sin and death by the blood of Christ
- It is nothing they did that they got saved - no good works but the grace of God.
- God called them out of this life to a new life in Christ {Eph 2]
- they had faith and they believed in Christ
- they must now continue on with good works and righteousness [Eph 3 and 4]
- If they fail to do this and they continue with their past sinful life, they will not inherit the Kingdom of God [Eph 5]
Thats the whole story. You like cherry picking.. go ahead.
I understand the whole of the book of Ephesians and my doctrine is the whole of what Paul and Christ said.
Originally posted by @secondsonLol .. just as I thought. Nothing in those references make sense.
Redemption
John 3:14
And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up.
Hebrews 10:7-10
Then I said, 'Here I am - it is written about me in the scroll - I have come to do your will, O God." First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you plea ...[text shortened]... told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
I know your church doctrine better than you pal
Your church doctrine says 'it is finished' means :
- that the debt for sin is paid in full by the death of Christ.
- that nothing further is required for eternal life
- that if anyone tries to do good works it is an insult to the cross of Christ.
The Bible says no such thing... and you will find no referenxes stateing any of the above
That is the single most dangerous false doctrine in Christianity.
the failure to understand what the death and resurrection of Christ was for.
The church uses that doctrine as a licence to sin and still get into the Kingdom of God.
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Originally posted by @rajk999So you agree that we are saved by grace through faith and not by works? Yes or no? By the way I agree that those who have genuine faith will do good works. But we are not saved by those works, else Ephesians 2:8 is a lie.
The wise man does not cherry pick and take one verse out of a whole book and thinks that alone tells the whole story. The whole book of Ephesians explains the process of eternal life. I have explained it before. Paul said
- Ephesians are saved from a life of sin and death by the blood of Christ
- It is nothing they did that they got saved - no good wor ...[text shortened]... nd the whole of the book of Ephesians and my doctrine is the whole of what Paul and Christ said.
Originally posted by @dj2beckerIs there some part of the bible that differentiates between genuine faith and other types? Or is that just more church jargon. Like I said Im not discussing church language.
So you agree that we are saved by grace through faith and not by works? Yes or no? By the way I agree that those who have genuine faith will do good works. But we are not saved by those works, else Ephesians 2:8 is a lie.
I know James speaks of dead faith and that is still faith but without works.
Originally posted by @rajk999Just as I thought. You have no idea why Jesus said "it is finished".
Lol .. just as I thought. Nothing in those references make sense.
I know your church doctrine better than you pal
Your church doctrine says 'it is finished' means :
- that the debt for sin is paid in full by the death of Christ.
- that nothing further is required for eternal life
- that if anyone tries to do good works it is an insult to the cross ...[text shortened]... for.
The church uses that doctrine as a licence to sin and still get into the Kingdom of God.
2 edits
Originally posted by @secondsonI do ... you told me. But it makes no sense.
Just as I thought. You have no idea why Jesus said "it is finished".
Your doctrine is not in the bible.
Whenever you need to quote a load of irrelevant passages like you did
to prove your point .. then it is not in the bible.
Jesus said it is finished because His work is done.
The only question now is what is the work that is done.
The work is what God sent his Son to do
- preaching repentance and righteosness to the Jews
- commissioning the disciples
- preaching about his commandments
- dying on the cross for the sins of the world
IT IS FINISHED
Man can now benefit from this work If and only if, they
have faith and they follow his commandments.
Your interpretation of 'it is finished', is just a licence to sin.
its the single most dangerous fatal doctrine in Christianity
pathetic nonsense.
Originally posted by @rajk999You have no idea why Jesus died on the cross, much less even what redemption means.
I do ... you told me. But it makes no sense.
Your doctrine is not in the bible.
Whenever you need to quote a load of irrelevant passages like you did
to prove your point .. then it is not in the bible.
Jesus said it is finished because His work is done.
The only question now is what is the work that is done.
The work is what God sent his Son to do ...[text shortened]... ence to sin.
its the single most dangerous fatal doctrine in Christianity
pathetic nonsense.
You said in an earlier post that you weren't interested in Isaiah. Do you have any idea how many times Isaiah is quoted in the New Testament? I'm sure you don't.
Isaiah 40:3
The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
Have any idea who John the Baptist is referring to?
I'm certain it doesn't agree with your unbiblical doctrine of Jesus Christ.
Originally posted by @secondsonTrying to change the topic ?
You have no idea why Jesus died on the cross, much less even what redemption means.
You said in an earlier post that you weren't interested in Isaiah. Do you have any idea how many times Isaiah is quoted in the New Testament? I'm sure you don't.
Isaiah 40:3
The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straigh ...[text shortened]... is referring to?
I'm certain it doesn't agree with your unbiblical doctrine of Jesus Christ.
You failed to explain what Jesus means by 'IT IS FINISHED'
You quoted a bunch of irrelevant passsges, without any explanation
I know from talking to church people what they think it means ::
- that the debt for sin is paid in full by the death of Christ.
- that nothing further is required for eternal life
- that if anyone tries to do good works it is an insult to the cross of Christ.
Nowhere in the Bible can the above doctrine be supported.
If it can then please quote the relevant passages