How about Peter:
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. (2 Peter 2:20-21 KJV)
You understand what God is saying here?
It is better if you did not know Christ that you know Christ and continue with unrighteousness. .. because your end will be worse than the beginning.
You know God with your mouth.
You do not apply what God is saying about
eternal life
good works
righteousness
May you might listen to what God says through James
Thou believest that there is one God;
thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Was not Abraham our father justified by works,
when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
(James 2:19-21 KJV)
The devils believe what you believe too.
The devils dont do good works.
Their belief is of no value ... just like yours
From Jesus himself ... I know you dont believe Christ :
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Blessed are they that do his commandments,
that they may have right to the tree of life,
and may enter in through the gates into the city.
(Revelation 22:13-14 KJV)
Blessed are they that DO HIS COMMANDMENTS.
They who DO HIS COMMANDMENTS ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD
Not blessed are they who know he is God or know he is Alpha and Omega.
Your church doctrine has lost its focus.
Who are the children of God ? See anything there about believing that God is Jesus? See anything about faith only ? See any mouth worshippers there ?
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:3-10 KJV)
Your church is lost in false doctrines
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God hats sin and loves righteousness.
Will faithful sinners will enter the Kingdom of God ??
God hates
These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
A proud look,
a lying tongue, and
hands that shed innocent blood,
An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations,
feet that be swift in running to mischief,
A false witness that speaketh lies,
and he that soweth discord among brethren.
(Proverbs 6:16-19 KJV)
God loves:
- A cheerful giver. 2 Corinthians 9:7.
- Justice.
- The righteous and rightousness
- Those who love Him.
- Those who obey His commands.
- The godly and those who pursue godliness.
Originally posted by @rajk999<<For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.>>
OIr maybe you dont like what Christ preached.. I know.
So how about Paul
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named amon ...[text shortened]... later, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
(Ephesians 5:1-5 KJV)[/b]
Where you error here is in thinking Paul is talking about someone committing a single sin (and repenting afterward) and not someone living a lifestyle of sin.
Originally posted by @rajk999Where you error here is in thinking Peter is talking about people who have accepted Christ into their hearts and who believe in Him and His Resurrection and thereby obtained salvation.
How about Peter:
[i]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn ...[text shortened]... your mouth.
You do not apply what God is saying about
eternal life
good works
righteousness
Having “knowledge” of Christ is much different and precedes accepting Christ and believing in Him and that God raised Him from the dead.
Originally posted by @rajk999Making judgments and bearing false witness again?
May you might listen to what God says through James
Thou believest that there is one God;
thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Was not Abraham our father justified by works,
when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
(James 2:19-21 KJV)
The devi ...[text shortened]... ou believe too.
The devils dont do good works.
Their belief is of no value ... just like yours
Unless your “good works” advance the Kingdom of God, they’re worthless and will be burned up as hay or stubble. That is why missionaries who win souls for Christ are doing the most important and valuable work of all - but you deride them as “mouth worshippers.”
Originally posted by @rajk999Jesus identified Himself as God more than a few times and predicted His crucifixion and Resurrection several times. He also spoke of the New Covenant and purpose of His crucifixion.
Who are the children of God ? See anything there about believing that God is Jesus? See anything about faith only ? See any mouth worshippers there ?
[i]Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are ...[text shortened]... e doctrines
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The fact He didn’t do that in the passage you cited doesn’t mean He never spoke of these matters.
Originally posted by @rajk999A key point that seems to invariably fall the wayside is that fact that Jesus emphasizes a strict dichotomy between a 'good tree' and a 'bad tree':
It would be interesting to hear some comments from those who have no horse in this race, about what Jesus means here. I get tired of sonship using the passage to condemn those he disagrees with. Here is the whole passage and the gist of what I think Jesus is saying:
- False prophets are like a corrupt tree which produces evil fruit
- Corrupt trees are c ...[text shortened]... and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
(Matthew 7:15-27 KJV)[/i]
"Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit"
As such, a 'good tree' cannot bring forth sin which can only be deemed 'bad fruit'.
This makes perfect logical sense. True prophets are truly one with God, are truly sons of God, etc. and would be the only ones who can speak for God. Those who are truly one with God are 'good trees' that do not commit sin. Those who are truly sons of God are 'good trees' that do not commit sin.
Jesus was one with God, a son of God, etc. and thus was a true prophet. What's more, Jesus calls for His followers to become one with God as He was one with God and to becomes sons of God as He was a son of God. As such, His 'true disciples' no longer continue to commit sin.
Jesus calls for His followers to become one with God as He was one with God and to becomes sons of God as He was a son of God. As such, His 'true disciples' no longer continue to commit sin.
The vast majority of Christians disingenuously ignore the above points since it flies in the face of the gospel in which they believe. Just as they disingenuously ignore many of the points that you make. Jesus preached a very different gospel from which they were taught.
What's also of note is how Christians who believe it impossible for any human to no longer commit sin, believe the teachings of those other than Jesus despite the fact that they are 'false prophets' according to Matthew 7:15-20.
Originally posted by @thinkofone<<As such, a 'good tree' cannot bring forth sin which can only be deemed 'bad fruit'. >>
A key point that seems to invariably fall the wayside is that fact that Jesus emphasizes a strict dichotomy between a 'good tree' and a 'bad tree':
"Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. [b]A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit"
As su ...[text shortened]... e other than Jesus despite the fact that they are 'false prophets' according to Matthew 7:15-20.[/b]
Where in the Bible is bad fruit and good fruit defined as you define them? I’m aware of only one place in the Bible where good fruit is defined (the fruit of the Spirit that indwells believers in Jesus and His Resurrection) and the fruit of the Spirit is not defined as good works.
Originally posted by @romans1009Pay attention to what Jesus said both before and after the verses I cited:
<<As such, a 'good tree' cannot bring forth sin which can only be deemed 'bad fruit'. >>
Where in the Bible is bad fruit and good fruit defined as you define them? I’m aware of only one place in the Bible where good fruit is defined (the fruit of the Spirit that indwells believers in Jesus and His Resurrection) and the fruit of the Spirit is not defined as good works.
15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16“You will know them by their fruits.
21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
Following are more examples:
Luke 6
43“For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit. 44“For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. 45“The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart.
John 15
. 8“My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. 9“Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. 10“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
'Good fruit' is that which is consistent with the will of God. 'Bad fruit' is that which deviates from the will of God. Sin is deviation from the will of God and therefore 'bad fruit'. This all makes perfect logical sense.
Originally posted by @romans1009Makes no difference. Peter is crystal clear.
Where you error here is in thinking Peter is talking about people who have accepted Christ into their hearts and who believe in Him and His Resurrection and thereby obtained salvation.
Having “knowledge” of Christ is much different and precedes accepting Christ and believing in Him and that God raised Him from the dead.